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Where I'd push back is that Claude isn't a contrarian, it's a pedant that likes to argue with you. It's not just disagreeing with your point but reframing your

Where I'd push back is that Claude isn't a contrarian, it's a pedant that likes to argue with you. It's not just disagreeing with your point but reframing your own point in a way that makes it correct and you wrong.

jorl17 12d ago
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mcv 12d ago
Really? I still find it too sycophantic at times.
- knollimar 12d ago
  It's contrarian in a sycophantic way. It'll agree with your main point and then arbitarily find something to bike shed over
wccrawford 12d ago
I have absolutely seen this, and love to read out it's quotes to my wife. Things like "You're right, but for a stronger reason than you said:" and crap like that. Even if it's correct about that, if it were a human, I'd assume they were 1-upping me on purpose to make themselves look better.
- knollimar 12d ago
  Or it'll strawman your point in the most bad faith way possible and correct you by handing you back the words you meant...
- nearbuy 12d ago
  > Things like "You're right, but for a stronger reason than you said:" I also get this a lot, but almost always with "and for a stronger reason than you said", which makes it sound more like it's reinforcing me than one-upping me. Looking through my recent transcripts, I found this pattern 12 times, with every time using "and" instead of "but". Eg: - "Confirmed, and it's worse than a pause quirk." - "I think the ban is right, and it's a stronger idea than what I'd proposed." I did find one instance with "but", but it was a genuine disagreement rather than 1-upping or presenting strengthening evidence: "I would cap it, but for a different reason than fairness."
  - wccrawford 12d ago
    It probably is "and", and I agree it sounds better than "but". That was probably just me misremembering because it was about the feeling and not the exact words. But if it were a person, I'd still definitely think they were trying to show they were smarter than me.
    - knollimar 12d ago
      You're too dumb to get your own point. Let me spoonfeed it back to you
deleted 12d ago
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shawnwall 12d ago
You mean like half the engineers I've worked with in my career? I wonder how we got here :)
settsu 12d ago
Surely, SOMEone at these companies realized training LLMs on the content of the internet (namely the vast amount of comment sections) would result in such outcomes. Or at least that they should weight heavily against that content for purposes of writing voice.
- abletonlive 12d ago
  Just say reddit lol. Claude is becoming a highly capable Redditor
  - cindyllm 12d ago
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jorl17 12d ago

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mcv 12d ago

Really? I still find it too sycophantic at times.

knollimar 12d ago
It's contrarian in a sycophantic way. It'll agree with your main point and then arbitarily find something to bike shed over

wccrawford 12d ago

I have absolutely seen this, and love to read out it's quotes to my wife. Things like "You're right, but for a stronger reason than you said:" and crap like that. Even if it's correct about that, if it were a human, I'd assume they were 1-upping me on purpose to make themselves look better.

knollimar 12d ago
Or it'll strawman your point in the most bad faith way possible and correct you by handing you back the words you meant...
nearbuy 12d ago
> Things like "You're right, but for a stronger reason than you said:" I also get this a lot, but almost always with "and for a stronger reason than you said", which makes it sound more like it's reinforcing me than one-upping me. Looking through my recent transcripts, I found this pattern 12 times, with every time using "and" instead of "but". Eg: - "Confirmed, and it's worse than a pause quirk." - "I think the ban is right, and it's a stronger idea than what I'd proposed." I did find one instance with "but", but it was a genuine disagreement rather than 1-upping or presenting strengthening evidence: "I would cap it, but for a different reason than fairness."
- wccrawford 12d ago
  It probably is "and", and I agree it sounds better than "but". That was probably just me misremembering because it was about the feeling and not the exact words. But if it were a person, I'd still definitely think they were trying to show they were smarter than me.
  - knollimar 12d ago
    You're too dumb to get your own point. Let me spoonfeed it back to you

deleted 12d ago

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shawnwall 12d ago

You mean like half the engineers I've worked with in my career? I wonder how we got here :)

settsu 12d ago

Surely, SOMEone at these companies realized training LLMs on the content of the internet (namely the vast amount of comment sections) would result in such outcomes. Or at least that they should weight heavily against that content for purposes of writing voice.

abletonlive 12d ago
Just say reddit lol. Claude is becoming a highly capable Redditor
- cindyllm 12d ago
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