3 ms·

H1B should have never been a lottery. It should be a stack rank by salary to deal with the over subscription.

by adrr 12d ago

cogman10 12d ago
Oh that's a really good way to handle it that would actually follow the intent of the program. You can't find someone to do a job? Then you need to compete on wage with other companies to bring someone in. Or, you know, raise your salary for local employees.
- winstonp 12d ago
  the salary weighted lottery today is a good step in the right direction IMO.
  - lokar 12d ago
    I think it has to be by industry and role. Software, mechanical engineering, teaching, medicine, etc are all very different
    - rbanffy 12d ago
      It needs to compensate for country and position.
- lokar 12d ago
  A simple stack rank and cut has the problem of where to draw the line. Also, how to value pre-ipo stock There are other good options as well (an auction, etc). They all have problems, but there are mitigations. It could be vastly improved even if it’s not perfect. It’s just the will to do it.
  - schnitzelstoat 12d ago
    But at the moment there are quotas right? So it's basically the same - there are N visas to give out so you rank by salary and pick the top N.
  - lokar 12d ago
    Another problem: different industries and roles natohace different pay ranges. If you decide on a single pay cutoff software engineers will starve everyone else out. And there are of course great, well paid people in other hard to hire industries.
    - triceratops 12d ago
      Maybe that's ok? It would raise pay in other industries.
      - lokar 12d ago
        I doubt it. Most are limited by the economics. They just don’t make as much per employee as software.
        triceratops 12d ago
        Something about those industries would change. They might charge their customers more or train up more people or get more creative with technology. Or the market might decide it can do without that additional productivity from those companies.
rayiner 12d ago
That would make sense if the purpose of the program was to get the most valuable top talent. How do we decide who is the most valuable? We let the market decide. But that would cause upward wage pressure, which would undermine the real purpose of the program.
shagie 12d ago
H1B also includes things like high school foreign language teachers. https://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=&job=french+language+immersion+teacher&city=&year=2025 https://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=&job=french+language+immer... A stack rank by salary would mean "H1B is big tech employees" rather than "these are professionals who have skills."
- bickfordb 12d ago
  The H1B was intended for highly specialized skills that where there is no local talent available.
  - ok123456 12d ago
    Excatly. It was meant as a temporary program in the early-90s. It wasn't meant as a permanent solution for skilled labor staffing. We've had about 35 years to build a domestic pipeline of Novell NetWare, SunOS 4, Windows 3.0, and dBASE IV developers and experts.
  - triceratops 12d ago
    "Foreign language teacher" isn't a "highly specialized skill"? Tons of Americans work as English teachers abroad.
    - bickfordb 12d ago
      I don't believe it is (someone who knows two languages isn't remarkable, someone who can teach others isn't remarkable), but there should probably be a visa for that if we need it. I personally don't believe even a lot of the software/IT industry jobs merit H1Bs. They work abroad under the respective country's work visa. H1B is US specific, specific visa. The US has plenty of other work visas.
      - triceratops 12d ago
        > I don't believe it is...I personally don't believe even a lot of the software/IT industry jobs merit H1Bs. The law doesn't work based on your beliefs. > someone who knows two languages isn't remarkable, someone who can teach others isn't remarkable First: it depends on the language. Second: the combination of two relatively commonplace skills in one person isn't commonplace. "Be top 20% in two things instead of top 5% in one thing" is standard career advice.
bluGill 12d ago
I have a couple problems with that idea that I've never been able to figure out even though the idea is good. First, how do we ensure it doesn't become a slave program: that is you get hired for X, and they are paying you that, but you want to find a new job because you don't like your boss. Or perhaps they hire you for X, and you are doing Y (again, nothing illegal) Second, you hire someone to do a job, and they realize you have to pay them and so they decide to do nothing (or get a second job that they are working instead). I can find answers to all of the above, but they all fail to: somebody is aware of your solution - how are they going to abuse it. I haven't solved this secondary abuse issue.
bijowo1676 12d ago
the problem is H1B is not only tech, there are nurses, some medical professionals, non-tech specialized workers. Stack rank would just give all the visas to big tech and starve US hospitals and every other industry
- adrr 12d ago
  Medical field is under a green program. But following your point. If nursing paid more and had better conditions, it would encourage more domestic talent. H1B should be used for to get the worlds top talent otherwise it will be used by businesses to save money and depress wages.
  - bijowo1676 12d ago
    top talent is different visa (O-1). H1B is merely specialized worker, not top tier global talent. Nursing does pay a lot and conditions havent changed much over the years. Certified anesthesiology nurses get paid like $132/hr, and still there is shortage.
benhurmarcel 12d ago
Ranking by salary would basically mean ranking by industry, not just skill
rbanffy 12d ago
> It should be a stack rank by salary to deal with the over subscription Considering salary based on country of origin, adjusted for position, would probably be the best way to ensure little abuse (apart from the indentured servitude-like features). If you want to hire the best, they'll be overpaid in their origin markets.

H1B should have never been a lottery. It should be a stack rank by salary to deal with the over subscription.

by adrr 12d ago

H1B should have never been a lottery. It should be a stack rank by salary to deal with the over subscription.

Oh that's a really good way to handle it that would actually follow the intent of the program. You can't find someone to do a job? Then you need to compete on wage with other companies to bring someone in. Or, you know, raise your salary for local employees.

winstonp 12d ago
the salary weighted lottery today is a good step in the right direction IMO.
- lokar 12d ago
  I think it has to be by industry and role. Software, mechanical engineering, teaching, medicine, etc are all very different
  - rbanffy 12d ago
    It needs to compensate for country and position.
lokar 12d ago
A simple stack rank and cut has the problem of where to draw the line. Also, how to value pre-ipo stock There are other good options as well (an auction, etc). They all have problems, but there are mitigations. It could be vastly improved even if it’s not perfect. It’s just the will to do it.
- schnitzelstoat 12d ago
  But at the moment there are quotas right? So it's basically the same - there are N visas to give out so you rank by salary and pick the top N.
- lokar 12d ago
  Another problem: different industries and roles natohace different pay ranges. If you decide on a single pay cutoff software engineers will starve everyone else out. And there are of course great, well paid people in other hard to hire industries.
  - triceratops 12d ago
    Maybe that's ok? It would raise pay in other industries.
    - lokar 12d ago
      I doubt it. Most are limited by the economics. They just don’t make as much per employee as software.
      - triceratops 12d ago
        Something about those industries would change. They might charge their customers more or train up more people or get more creative with technology. Or the market might decide it can do without that additional productivity from those companies.

rayiner 12d ago

That would make sense if the purpose of the program was to get the most valuable top talent. How do we decide who is the most valuable? We let the market decide. But that would cause upward wage pressure, which would undermine the real purpose of the program.

shagie 12d ago

H1B also includes things like high school foreign language teachers. https://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=&job=french+language+immersion+teacher&city=&year=2025 https://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=&job=french+language+immer... A stack rank by salary would mean "H1B is big tech employees" rather than "these are professionals who have skills."

bickfordb 12d ago
The H1B was intended for highly specialized skills that where there is no local talent available.
- ok123456 12d ago
  Excatly. It was meant as a temporary program in the early-90s. It wasn't meant as a permanent solution for skilled labor staffing. We've had about 35 years to build a domestic pipeline of Novell NetWare, SunOS 4, Windows 3.0, and dBASE IV developers and experts.
- triceratops 12d ago
  "Foreign language teacher" isn't a "highly specialized skill"? Tons of Americans work as English teachers abroad.
  - bickfordb 12d ago
    I don't believe it is (someone who knows two languages isn't remarkable, someone who can teach others isn't remarkable), but there should probably be a visa for that if we need it. I personally don't believe even a lot of the software/IT industry jobs merit H1Bs. They work abroad under the respective country's work visa. H1B is US specific, specific visa. The US has plenty of other work visas.
    - triceratops 12d ago
      > I don't believe it is...I personally don't believe even a lot of the software/IT industry jobs merit H1Bs. The law doesn't work based on your beliefs. > someone who knows two languages isn't remarkable, someone who can teach others isn't remarkable First: it depends on the language. Second: the combination of two relatively commonplace skills in one person isn't commonplace. "Be top 20% in two things instead of top 5% in one thing" is standard career advice.

bluGill 12d ago

I have a couple problems with that idea that I've never been able to figure out even though the idea is good. First, how do we ensure it doesn't become a slave program: that is you get hired for X, and they are paying you that, but you want to find a new job because you don't like your boss. Or perhaps they hire you for X, and you are doing Y (again, nothing illegal) Second, you hire someone to do a job, and they realize you have to pay them and so they decide to do nothing (or get a second job that they are working instead). I can find answers to all of the above, but they all fail to: somebody is aware of your solution - how are they going to abuse it. I haven't solved this secondary abuse issue.

bijowo1676 12d ago

the problem is H1B is not only tech, there are nurses, some medical professionals, non-tech specialized workers. Stack rank would just give all the visas to big tech and starve US hospitals and every other industry

adrr 12d ago
Medical field is under a green program. But following your point. If nursing paid more and had better conditions, it would encourage more domestic talent. H1B should be used for to get the worlds top talent otherwise it will be used by businesses to save money and depress wages.
- bijowo1676 12d ago
  top talent is different visa (O-1). H1B is merely specialized worker, not top tier global talent. Nursing does pay a lot and conditions havent changed much over the years. Certified anesthesiology nurses get paid like $132/hr, and still there is shortage.

benhurmarcel 12d ago

Ranking by salary would basically mean ranking by industry, not just skill

rbanffy 12d ago

> It should be a stack rank by salary to deal with the over subscription Considering salary based on country of origin, adjusted for position, would probably be the best way to ensure little abuse (apart from the indentured servitude-like features). If you want to hire the best, they'll be overpaid in their origin markets.