3 ms·

Firing is not hard. When my country telecom was privatized and the contract limited the amount of layoffs they could legally make - they just put every parasite

Firing is not hard. When my country telecom was privatized and the contract limited the amount of layoffs they could legally make - they just put every parasite in his own room with no internet, no pc-s, totally forbidden to use personal devices and gave them no tasks. They were also under strict monitoring for misusing the company time(reading on work), phones and being strict on arrival/departure. The ones that didn't left on their own out of boredom, soon accumulated enough "sins" to be fired.

seanmcdirmid 14y ago
That isn't actually firing someone, but making their life so miserable that they quit. See NYC's teacher rubber rooms. Compared to firing someone, I find this approach quite inhumane, at least you could challenge the firing.
Nursie 14y ago
In the UK that would be interpreted as 'constructive dismissal' and you could be spanked pretty hard for that at an employment tribunal. Is it that hard to get rid of someone within the rules?
- venomsnake 14y ago
  They were under contract to not cut more than 3K jobs per year, but had to get rid of almost 20K persons. Saw what constructive dismissal is - how is this making the employee life unbearable - he is getting full salary for doing nothing and nobody is harassing him. He is just not allowed to communicate with the rest of the company.
  - Nursie 14y ago
    Making them sit in a room for hours at a time with no work, monitoring them for any activity they use to distract themselves so you can use it to fire them - that's basically abusive, verging on mental torture. The company being under contract is no excuse for abusive conduct.
    - venomsnake 14y ago
      Have you noticed the word parasites in my original post? As a post communist regime company in Eastern Europe half were communist party related nepotists, third were incompetent and 20% did medal of honor worthy deeds to try and do all the work there was. It was common for a lot of people to come to work just to drink coffee and do nothing but gossip. They just took away the coffee and the gossip.
      - Nursie 14y ago
        So the problem is the regulatory situation that the company was in, this weird contract that required you to keep a certain number of people employed. I'm sorry you felt you had to abuse people to achieve your business goals. This would not be acceptable in my country, but then neither would you be bound to keep a certain number of people employed.
  - Daniel_Newby 14y ago
    In the U.S., an employee has the right to do the work they were hired to do, owing to the need for career development and currency.
    - venomsnake 14y ago
      In the US employees also get the right to get a pink slip and move the hell away. Which is not always the case in Europe. A friend currently had some trouble firing a very toxic person from his startup. This is perverse situation where employee rights has gone berserk - in my country firing is hard because the government prefers not to pay the unemployment benefits it is obliged to so they always side with the employees in the private sector.
    - hamax 14y ago
      This is true in most European countries too.
reinhardt 14y ago
Interesting.. out of curiosity, which country is this?
- venomsnake 14y ago
  Bulgaria - it was 2001/2002 I think. Ancient times when Dialogic phone cards were considered sexy. And ISDN speeds were fast. I was doing some dev work for them on a outside project. The company had payroll of 35 000 and a modern telecom needed only 6-7000. The new owners used every possible combination of scare, carrots, sticks, severances to try and achieve the goal.
abolibibelot 14y ago
France Telecom basically did that to some of its employees too when it muted from monopoly to oligopoly. It led to a surge in suicides.

seanmcdirmid 14y ago

That isn't actually firing someone, but making their life so miserable that they quit. See NYC's teacher rubber rooms. Compared to firing someone, I find this approach quite inhumane, at least you could challenge the firing.

Nursie 14y ago

In the UK that would be interpreted as 'constructive dismissal' and you could be spanked pretty hard for that at an employment tribunal. Is it that hard to get rid of someone within the rules?

venomsnake 14y ago
They were under contract to not cut more than 3K jobs per year, but had to get rid of almost 20K persons. Saw what constructive dismissal is - how is this making the employee life unbearable - he is getting full salary for doing nothing and nobody is harassing him. He is just not allowed to communicate with the rest of the company.
- Nursie 14y ago
  Making them sit in a room for hours at a time with no work, monitoring them for any activity they use to distract themselves so you can use it to fire them - that's basically abusive, verging on mental torture. The company being under contract is no excuse for abusive conduct.
  - venomsnake 14y ago
    Have you noticed the word parasites in my original post? As a post communist regime company in Eastern Europe half were communist party related nepotists, third were incompetent and 20% did medal of honor worthy deeds to try and do all the work there was. It was common for a lot of people to come to work just to drink coffee and do nothing but gossip. They just took away the coffee and the gossip.
    - Nursie 14y ago
      So the problem is the regulatory situation that the company was in, this weird contract that required you to keep a certain number of people employed. I'm sorry you felt you had to abuse people to achieve your business goals. This would not be acceptable in my country, but then neither would you be bound to keep a certain number of people employed.
- Daniel_Newby 14y ago
  In the U.S., an employee has the right to do the work they were hired to do, owing to the need for career development and currency.
  - venomsnake 14y ago
    In the US employees also get the right to get a pink slip and move the hell away. Which is not always the case in Europe. A friend currently had some trouble firing a very toxic person from his startup. This is perverse situation where employee rights has gone berserk - in my country firing is hard because the government prefers not to pay the unemployment benefits it is obliged to so they always side with the employees in the private sector.
  - hamax 14y ago
    This is true in most European countries too.

reinhardt 14y ago

Interesting.. out of curiosity, which country is this?

venomsnake 14y ago
Bulgaria - it was 2001/2002 I think. Ancient times when Dialogic phone cards were considered sexy. And ISDN speeds were fast. I was doing some dev work for them on a outside project. The company had payroll of 35 000 and a modern telecom needed only 6-7000. The new owners used every possible combination of scare, carrots, sticks, severances to try and achieve the goal.

abolibibelot 14y ago

France Telecom basically did that to some of its employees too when it muted from monopoly to oligopoly. It led to a surge in suicides.