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A UBI society doesn't mean jobs aren’t available. There most certainly will be jobs. But with UBI and universal healthcare, the jobs can pay whatever the market

A UBI society doesn't mean jobs aren’t available. There most certainly will be jobs. But with UBI and universal healthcare, the jobs can pay whatever the market really demands. People always complain about the government subsidizing low Walmart wages for example, but with UBI that argument is moot. Liberalizing the labor market wouldn’t mean less jobs, it would mean more (we would also have to lean more on corporate and consumption taxes rather than taxes around employment which would also make employment easier).

andriy_koval 13d ago
> we would also have to lean more on corporate and consumption taxes rather than taxes around employment which would also make employment easier I think the only way forward is wealth tax. Rich accumulated so much wealth already, that they don't need to put it to profitable businesses.
- seanmcdirmid 13d ago
  Wealth taxes require liquidating investments early and don’t promote good practices, especially if they are applied broadly. I would opt for a tax on loans instead (you have to prepay tax on loans that use investments as collateral and no more step up in basis on death).
  - andriy_koval 13d ago
    > Wealth taxes require liquidating investments early it works for RE already without liquidation > . I would opt for a tax on loans instead (you have to prepay tax on loans that use investments as collateral and no more step up in basis on death). rich just will move from this scheme to something else, and nothing changes.
    - seanmcdirmid 12d ago
      The rich will just move to a different country, negotiate with a Swiss canton for a fixed sum tax. I don't see how a tax that punishes wealth is sustainable, the wealth will just go somewhere else. Maybe if we had a world government or something.
      - andriy_koval 12d ago
        US currently hold enough power to make them paying their debts oversees too. Also, I think it is equilibrium of interests of all involved parties: rich pay 0.5%/y of wealth tax, population is healthier, country is stronger and protects interests and safety of rich. The problem is mostly to make them realize this.
        seanmcdirmid 12d ago
        > US currently hold enough power to make them paying their debts oversees too. The US is increasingly a less relevant country every year. With a wealth tax, yes, all those Americans will have their wealth eventually confiscated (0.5% a year will add up quickly year after year, investments will unwind so wealth will stop accumulated, and eventually it's gone), but I doubt the rest of the world will care and just move on and decide crazy things that happen in the US are like the crazy things that happen in Iran.
        andriy_koval 12d ago
        > With a wealth tax, yes, all those Americans will have their wealth eventually confiscate US already have 0.5-1.5% property tax, no one calls it confiscation.
  - danny_codes 12d ago
    Counterpoint, who cares? Markets will simply adjust and financial services will arise to smooth instances where liquidation is problematic. The status quo shifts to optimize once taxes change. Our system will do the same. I don’t understand why people don’t think it through all the way to the next equilibrium
    - seanmcdirmid 11d ago
      > Markets will simply adjust and financial services will arise to smooth instances where liquidation is problematic. The market will address by the wealth moving to where the wealth tax isn't. Then the countries will start creating ridiculous exemptions and they become nothing burgers (e.g. see Switzerland's wealth tax).
      - danny_codes 10d ago
        So, your argument is that badly implemented wealth taxes lead to capital flight? Sure, we all agree. The solution is pretty obvious, just implement a wealth tax that prevents capital flight. It’s not that hard. The US already taxes its citizens abroad. A well-implemented wealth tax would be charged regardless of where you live or where your money is. If you are a US citizen you get taxed. Then you slap an exit tax on citizenship revocation and you’re good to go. Not hard, simple, we already have systems in place to enforce it.

andriy_koval 13d ago

> we would also have to lean more on corporate and consumption taxes rather than taxes around employment which would also make employment easier I think the only way forward is wealth tax. Rich accumulated so much wealth already, that they don't need to put it to profitable businesses.

seanmcdirmid 13d ago
Wealth taxes require liquidating investments early and don’t promote good practices, especially if they are applied broadly. I would opt for a tax on loans instead (you have to prepay tax on loans that use investments as collateral and no more step up in basis on death).
- andriy_koval 13d ago
  > Wealth taxes require liquidating investments early it works for RE already without liquidation > . I would opt for a tax on loans instead (you have to prepay tax on loans that use investments as collateral and no more step up in basis on death). rich just will move from this scheme to something else, and nothing changes.
  - seanmcdirmid 12d ago
    The rich will just move to a different country, negotiate with a Swiss canton for a fixed sum tax. I don't see how a tax that punishes wealth is sustainable, the wealth will just go somewhere else. Maybe if we had a world government or something.
    - andriy_koval 12d ago
      US currently hold enough power to make them paying their debts oversees too. Also, I think it is equilibrium of interests of all involved parties: rich pay 0.5%/y of wealth tax, population is healthier, country is stronger and protects interests and safety of rich. The problem is mostly to make them realize this.
      - seanmcdirmid 12d ago
        > US currently hold enough power to make them paying their debts oversees too. The US is increasingly a less relevant country every year. With a wealth tax, yes, all those Americans will have their wealth eventually confiscated (0.5% a year will add up quickly year after year, investments will unwind so wealth will stop accumulated, and eventually it's gone), but I doubt the rest of the world will care and just move on and decide crazy things that happen in the US are like the crazy things that happen in Iran.
        andriy_koval 12d ago
        > With a wealth tax, yes, all those Americans will have their wealth eventually confiscate US already have 0.5-1.5% property tax, no one calls it confiscation.
- danny_codes 12d ago
  Counterpoint, who cares? Markets will simply adjust and financial services will arise to smooth instances where liquidation is problematic. The status quo shifts to optimize once taxes change. Our system will do the same. I don’t understand why people don’t think it through all the way to the next equilibrium
  - seanmcdirmid 11d ago
    > Markets will simply adjust and financial services will arise to smooth instances where liquidation is problematic. The market will address by the wealth moving to where the wealth tax isn't. Then the countries will start creating ridiculous exemptions and they become nothing burgers (e.g. see Switzerland's wealth tax).
    - danny_codes 10d ago
      So, your argument is that badly implemented wealth taxes lead to capital flight? Sure, we all agree. The solution is pretty obvious, just implement a wealth tax that prevents capital flight. It’s not that hard. The US already taxes its citizens abroad. A well-implemented wealth tax would be charged regardless of where you live or where your money is. If you are a US citizen you get taxed. Then you slap an exit tax on citizenship revocation and you’re good to go. Not hard, simple, we already have systems in place to enforce it.