4 ms·

I wonder how would this work in terms of fairness to the team that's likely to win. If a match is abandoned, what does it mean for progressing in a tournament,

by hakunin 18d ago

I wonder how would this work in terms of fairness to the team that's likely to win. If a match is abandoned, what does it mean for progressing in a tournament, etc. Could there be a perverse incentive to cause a black card to abort a lost game? I'm sure this has all been thought through, but the article doesn't seem to say anything about it.

ycombinete 18d ago
One can imagine overzealous parents tactically causing a scene to nullify a match result.
sixo 18d ago
I imagine this is the referee's call; a ref ought to know better than to abort the game because the losing team is throwing a tactical tantrum.
- onlypassingthru 18d ago
  That's placing a lot of faith in the maturity and tactical awareness of a teenager. I don't know about the games in Romania, but here in the US, the youth soccer referees are mostly older youths.
  - mbreese 18d ago
    In the US, only the youngest games have teenage refs (U10 and younger). And even then, it is only common in the lower competitive tiers. Competitive travel/select league games generally have adult refs (national and regional leagues). The money is pretty decent for two hours of work (and you can work games back to back to back).
    - beart 18d ago
      Your comment implies the youth refs are the exception, but the VAST majority of play are at these lower competitive levels, and it is FAR more common to have youth or inexperienced refs than otherwise.
      - mbreese 18d ago
        I’m saying that when you get to have games involving kids older than 10, that having teenage refs is more uncommon. In my area, there are a number of leagues. Only one has a large number of teenagers in the ref pool and they only are center refs for the youngest players. For the more competitive leagues, you almost never have a ref crew made up of only teenagers. Here, young refs are generally protected by having older refs as part of the crew. There is a whole system behind referee scheduling that most people don’t know about. (Also, this about soccer in the US, I have no idea how other sports schedule their officials)
        stockresearcher 17d ago
        When you say “teenage” refs I assume you are meaning kids 16or younger. A lot of adult-sized college-age teenagers ref games and you probably don’t realize it. You’re right about the scheduling aspect. If you’re in a healthy area and the leagues are playing according to US Soccer rules (using the IFAB bible plus approved grassroots modifications), the scheduling system is good and makes sure to keep refs assigned to appropriate matches (pro-tip: they keep track of the worst teams for abuse and only schedule the most grizzled refs. If none are available, then “sorry no refs are available for your match”). Also, I don’t know if it’s US-only thing or a worldwide FIFA thing, but for the past few years refs with less than 2 or 3 years of experience are supposed to be wearing a special armband that coaches are supposed to recognize - if the ref gets abuse from fans they tell the coaches and the coaches have to go deal with it. If it’s not dealt with, the match is abandoned.
    - deleted 18d ago
      [deleted]
- beart 18d ago
  The ref is impartial and their only job is to manage the game according to law. If a team's fans are misbehaving to the point the game must be abandoned, it doesn't matter one iota to the ref if those fans are tanking on purpose. The league can deal with that.
qsort 18d ago
Quoting from the official website: >>>>>> The new procedure targets inappropriate behavior by parents and spectators directed at children, coaching staff members, referees, match officials, or other parents and spectators. This includes, but is not limited to: Verbal abuse (insults or profanity), as well as physical assault or shoving of one’s own children; Verbal abuse, physical assault, or shoving of staff members of one’s own team; Verbal abuse, physical assault, or shoving of players or staff members of the opposing team; Continuous challenging, verbal abuse, physical assault, or shoving of referees and match officials; Verbal or physical altercations with other parents or spectators. <<<<<< If that's the situation in, and it can't be stressed enough, a children soccer game, then yes, abandoning the match is probably the right choice. I assume they are only defining a formal procedure for practices that already exist.
- Loughla 18d ago
  >If that's the situation in, and it can't be stressed enough, a children soccer game It's not extremely common in my area, but it is more common than you would think. Parents treat their children like lottery tickets when it comes to athletics. And God help you if you're the unfortunate umpire at a travel league game that makes a questionable call. The youth sports industry is fucking gross and nobody seems to notice. Source: we will not let our children participate in travel leagues and they do not want to participate in them either, for this specific reason.
  - steveBK123 18d ago
    I umpired baseball in my early teens and even 30 years ago it was bad. Grown men getting into the face of 14 years old umpires over calls, at games for kids barely out of tee-ball. It just doesn’t matter that much. I remember a coach who would flip over 20 gallon coolers and send ice and drinks flying in the dugout.. in front of his team of 10 years old umpires olds.
    - chneu 18d ago
      I officiated basketball, baseball, softball and volleyball about 15-20 years ago on the west coast. It was bad then. So many drunk parents in baseball. I tossed parents from basketball games for cussing at their kids. Volleyball was pretty chill tho.
itsmartapuntocm 18d ago
I would assume it’s treated as if the team of the offending parent has abandoned the match.
- daveguy 18d ago
  This makes more sense. Automatic loss for the offending parent.
  - wizzwizz4 18d ago
    In which case, abusive parents can use the rule to retaliate against their children. Never define a rule that gives bad actors power to dictate policy. (Note: this criticism doesn't seem to apply to the actual rule.)
- eps 18d ago
  This still can be gamed.
nullisland00 18d ago
Safety is far more important than deciding who won a youth match
enaaem 18d ago
Happened last week in the Netherlands. The home team (FC Utrecht) played terrible. They were down 3-1. Hooligans threw fireworks on the pitch and the match got suspended. The match was resumed three days later. Utrecht played much better en got a 3-3 draw.
charlieyu1 18d ago
When a ref abandons a match it is up to the board to decide what to do with the result. In senior games often the offenders get a lost. Plus this is youth games so results matter less.
- Ylpertnodi 17d ago
  > ...this is youth games so results matter less. Have you ever been to a kid's sporting event?

by hakunin 18d ago

ycombinete 18d ago

One can imagine overzealous parents tactically causing a scene to nullify a match result.

sixo 18d ago

I imagine this is the referee's call; a ref ought to know better than to abort the game because the losing team is throwing a tactical tantrum.

onlypassingthru 18d ago
That's placing a lot of faith in the maturity and tactical awareness of a teenager. I don't know about the games in Romania, but here in the US, the youth soccer referees are mostly older youths.
- mbreese 18d ago
  In the US, only the youngest games have teenage refs (U10 and younger). And even then, it is only common in the lower competitive tiers. Competitive travel/select league games generally have adult refs (national and regional leagues). The money is pretty decent for two hours of work (and you can work games back to back to back).
  - beart 18d ago
    Your comment implies the youth refs are the exception, but the VAST majority of play are at these lower competitive levels, and it is FAR more common to have youth or inexperienced refs than otherwise.
    - mbreese 18d ago
      I’m saying that when you get to have games involving kids older than 10, that having teenage refs is more uncommon. In my area, there are a number of leagues. Only one has a large number of teenagers in the ref pool and they only are center refs for the youngest players. For the more competitive leagues, you almost never have a ref crew made up of only teenagers. Here, young refs are generally protected by having older refs as part of the crew. There is a whole system behind referee scheduling that most people don’t know about. (Also, this about soccer in the US, I have no idea how other sports schedule their officials)
      - stockresearcher 17d ago
        When you say “teenage” refs I assume you are meaning kids 16or younger. A lot of adult-sized college-age teenagers ref games and you probably don’t realize it. You’re right about the scheduling aspect. If you’re in a healthy area and the leagues are playing according to US Soccer rules (using the IFAB bible plus approved grassroots modifications), the scheduling system is good and makes sure to keep refs assigned to appropriate matches (pro-tip: they keep track of the worst teams for abuse and only schedule the most grizzled refs. If none are available, then “sorry no refs are available for your match”). Also, I don’t know if it’s US-only thing or a worldwide FIFA thing, but for the past few years refs with less than 2 or 3 years of experience are supposed to be wearing a special armband that coaches are supposed to recognize - if the ref gets abuse from fans they tell the coaches and the coaches have to go deal with it. If it’s not dealt with, the match is abandoned.
  - deleted 18d ago
    [deleted]
beart 18d ago
The ref is impartial and their only job is to manage the game according to law. If a team's fans are misbehaving to the point the game must be abandoned, it doesn't matter one iota to the ref if those fans are tanking on purpose. The league can deal with that.

qsort 18d ago

Quoting from the official website: >>>>>> The new procedure targets inappropriate behavior by parents and spectators directed at children, coaching staff members, referees, match officials, or other parents and spectators. This includes, but is not limited to: Verbal abuse (insults or profanity), as well as physical assault or shoving of one’s own children; Verbal abuse, physical assault, or shoving of staff members of one’s own team; Verbal abuse, physical assault, or shoving of players or staff members of the opposing team; Continuous challenging, verbal abuse, physical assault, or shoving of referees and match officials; Verbal or physical altercations with other parents or spectators. <<<<<< If that's the situation in, and it can't be stressed enough, a children soccer game, then yes, abandoning the match is probably the right choice. I assume they are only defining a formal procedure for practices that already exist.

Loughla 18d ago
>If that's the situation in, and it can't be stressed enough, a children soccer game It's not extremely common in my area, but it is more common than you would think. Parents treat their children like lottery tickets when it comes to athletics. And God help you if you're the unfortunate umpire at a travel league game that makes a questionable call. The youth sports industry is fucking gross and nobody seems to notice. Source: we will not let our children participate in travel leagues and they do not want to participate in them either, for this specific reason.
- steveBK123 18d ago
  I umpired baseball in my early teens and even 30 years ago it was bad. Grown men getting into the face of 14 years old umpires over calls, at games for kids barely out of tee-ball. It just doesn’t matter that much. I remember a coach who would flip over 20 gallon coolers and send ice and drinks flying in the dugout.. in front of his team of 10 years old umpires olds.
  - chneu 18d ago
    I officiated basketball, baseball, softball and volleyball about 15-20 years ago on the west coast. It was bad then. So many drunk parents in baseball. I tossed parents from basketball games for cussing at their kids. Volleyball was pretty chill tho.

itsmartapuntocm 18d ago

I would assume it’s treated as if the team of the offending parent has abandoned the match.

daveguy 18d ago
This makes more sense. Automatic loss for the offending parent.
- wizzwizz4 18d ago
  In which case, abusive parents can use the rule to retaliate against their children. Never define a rule that gives bad actors power to dictate policy. (Note: this criticism doesn't seem to apply to the actual rule.)
eps 18d ago
This still can be gamed.

nullisland00 18d ago

Safety is far more important than deciding who won a youth match

enaaem 18d ago

Happened last week in the Netherlands. The home team (FC Utrecht) played terrible. They were down 3-1. Hooligans threw fireworks on the pitch and the match got suspended. The match was resumed three days later. Utrecht played much better en got a 3-3 draw.

charlieyu1 18d ago

When a ref abandons a match it is up to the board to decide what to do with the result. In senior games often the offenders get a lost. Plus this is youth games so results matter less.

Ylpertnodi 17d ago
> ...this is youth games so results matter less. Have you ever been to a kid's sporting event?