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PG hasn't been in the bay for a long time so he doesn't understand what the ecosystem is like anymore. For example "startups make the best stuff" is just wrong

PG hasn't been in the bay for a long time so he doesn't understand what the ecosystem is like anymore. For example "startups make the best stuff" is just wrong these days. I almost always assume the startup's product today is going to screw you or is hacky, because they prove over and over again they cut corners for growth. Very few startups still take the mentality PG has in his era and now ship half broken hacked stuff.

redanddead 15d ago
What’s the solution
- CalChris 15d ago
  Understanding the problem before attempting the solution is always a good idea.
  - CharlieDigital 15d ago
    I think this is a very classic "waterfall" world view. In many cases, the problem can only be understood through many failed solution attempts. It could be because the actual problem is novel. It could be because there is a different way of thinking about the problem that is not apparent studying only what a customer does today with the limitations of the software that they have right now. The point of "move fast, break things" is to address this fallacy that anyone can fully understand a problem before attempting the solution; it is often the case that in attempting a solution, one comes to understand the actual, valuable problem.
    - ctkhn 15d ago
      Waterfall means designing and building everything before rolling it out to users. Researching a problem before you start tackling it is just general good advice. You can be more effective while moving fast and breaking things while still taking some time to know where to move and what is ok vs not ok to break.
- kevindamm 15d ago
  Prioritizing something other than 7% week over week growth. This doesn't appeal as much to venture capitalists so we may have to try it with some bootstrapped products first.
- deleted 15d ago
  [deleted]
- chadgpt3 15d ago
  You can't say it here
Aurornis 15d ago
I do think that the startup pendulum swung too far in the direction of shipping as fast as possible. The cliche advice for years was that if your first shipping MVP wasn’t embarrassing in some way, you probably weren’t shipping fast enough. That led to a long period where startups were shipping things that barely worked and would fall apart if you deviated from the happy path at all. Companies and consumers alike got tired of paying to be alpha testers and do market research for startups. It was really bad when you’d start using a startup product, spend a lot of time working with them to identify bugs, and then they would pivot to some other idea they had.
- marcosdumay 15d ago
  > I do think that the startup pendulum swung too far in the direction of shipping as fast as possible. Nope. They did, but that's not the problem. The problem is that VCs moved way too much in the direction of "take over the world or go home" and don't allow companies that take investment to be just successful anymore.
tim333 14d ago
Here's PG giving a talk in Mountain View a couple of weeks ago https://youtu.be/5bxp78i96S8 https://youtu.be/5bxp78i96S8 He may live in England but he pops back quite often.

redanddead 15d ago

What’s the solution

CalChris 15d ago
Understanding the problem before attempting the solution is always a good idea.
- CharlieDigital 15d ago
  I think this is a very classic "waterfall" world view. In many cases, the problem can only be understood through many failed solution attempts. It could be because the actual problem is novel. It could be because there is a different way of thinking about the problem that is not apparent studying only what a customer does today with the limitations of the software that they have right now. The point of "move fast, break things" is to address this fallacy that anyone can fully understand a problem before attempting the solution; it is often the case that in attempting a solution, one comes to understand the actual, valuable problem.
  - ctkhn 15d ago
    Waterfall means designing and building everything before rolling it out to users. Researching a problem before you start tackling it is just general good advice. You can be more effective while moving fast and breaking things while still taking some time to know where to move and what is ok vs not ok to break.
kevindamm 15d ago
Prioritizing something other than 7% week over week growth. This doesn't appeal as much to venture capitalists so we may have to try it with some bootstrapped products first.
deleted 15d ago
[deleted]
chadgpt3 15d ago
You can't say it here

Aurornis 15d ago

I do think that the startup pendulum swung too far in the direction of shipping as fast as possible. The cliche advice for years was that if your first shipping MVP wasn’t embarrassing in some way, you probably weren’t shipping fast enough. That led to a long period where startups were shipping things that barely worked and would fall apart if you deviated from the happy path at all. Companies and consumers alike got tired of paying to be alpha testers and do market research for startups. It was really bad when you’d start using a startup product, spend a lot of time working with them to identify bugs, and then they would pivot to some other idea they had.

marcosdumay 15d ago
> I do think that the startup pendulum swung too far in the direction of shipping as fast as possible. Nope. They did, but that's not the problem. The problem is that VCs moved way too much in the direction of "take over the world or go home" and don't allow companies that take investment to be just successful anymore.

tim333 14d ago

Here's PG giving a talk in Mountain View a couple of weeks ago https://youtu.be/5bxp78i96S8 https://youtu.be/5bxp78i96S8 He may live in England but he pops back quite often.