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Romania soccer introduces black card to 'combat abusive behaviour' from parents
- hakunin 13d agoI wonder how would this work in terms of fairness to the team that's likely to win. If a match is abandoned, what does it mean for progressing in a tournament, etc. Could there be a perverse incentive to cause a black card to abort a lost game? I'm sure this has all been thought through, but the article doesn't seem to say anything about it.
- ycombinete 13d agoOne can imagine overzealous parents tactically causing a scene to nullify a match result.
- sixo 13d agoI imagine this is the referee's call; a ref ought to know better than to abort the game because the losing team is throwing a tactical tantrum.
- onlypassingthru 13d agoThat's placing a lot of faith in the maturity and tactical awareness of a teenager. I don't know about the games in Romania, but here in the US, the youth soccer referees are mostly older youths.
- mbreese 13d agoIn the US, only the youngest games have teenage refs (U10 and younger). And even then, it is only common in the lower competitive tiers. Competitive travel/select league games generally have adult refs (national and regional leagues). The money is pretty decent for two hours of work (and you can work games back to back to back).
- beart 13d agoYour comment implies the youth refs are the exception, but the VAST majority of play are at these lower competitive levels, and it is FAR more common to have youth or inexperienced refs than otherwise.
- mbreese 13d agoI’m saying that when you get to have games involving kids older than 10, that having teenage refs is more uncommon. In my area, there are a number of leagues. Only one has a large number of teenagers in the ref pool and they only are center refs for the youngest players. For the more competitive leagues, you almost never have a ref crew made up of only teenagers. Here, young refs are generally protected by having older refs as part of the crew. There is a whole system behind referee scheduling that most people don’t know about. (Also, this about soccer in the US, I have no idea how other sports schedule their officials)
- stockresearcher 12d agoWhen you say “teenage” refs I assume you are meaning kids 16or younger. A lot of adult-sized college-age teenagers ref games and you probably don’t realize it. You’re right about the scheduling aspect. If you’re in a healthy area and the leagues are playing according to US Soccer rules (using the IFAB bible plus approved grassroots modifications), the scheduling system is good and makes sure to keep refs assigned to appropriate matches (pro-tip: they keep track of the worst teams for abuse and only schedule the most grizzled refs. If none are available, then “sorry no refs are available for your match”). Also, I don’t know if it’s US-only thing or a worldwide FIFA thing, but for the past few years refs with less than 2 or 3 years of experience are supposed to be wearing a special armband that coaches are supposed to recognize - if the ref gets abuse from fans they tell the coaches and the coaches have to go deal with it. If it’s not dealt with, the match is abandoned.
- deleted 13d ago[deleted]
- beart 13d agoThe ref is impartial and their only job is to manage the game according to law. If a team's fans are misbehaving to the point the game must be abandoned, it doesn't matter one iota to the ref if those fans are tanking on purpose. The league can deal with that.
- qsort 13d agoQuoting from the official website: >>>>>> The new procedure targets inappropriate behavior by parents and spectators directed at children, coaching staff members, referees, match officials, or other parents and spectators. This includes, but is not limited to: Verbal abuse (insults or profanity), as well as physical assault or shoving of one’s own children; Verbal abuse, physical assault, or shoving of staff members of one’s own team; Verbal abuse, physical assault, or shoving of players or staff members of the opposing team; Continuous challenging, verbal abuse, physical assault, or shoving of referees and match officials; Verbal or physical altercations with other parents or spectators. <<<<<< If that's the situation in, and it can't be stressed enough, a children soccer game, then yes, abandoning the match is probably the right choice. I assume they are only defining a formal procedure for practices that already exist.
- Loughla 13d ago>If that's the situation in, and it can't be stressed enough, a children soccer game It's not extremely common in my area, but it is more common than you would think. Parents treat their children like lottery tickets when it comes to athletics. And God help you if you're the unfortunate umpire at a travel league game that makes a questionable call. The youth sports industry is fucking gross and nobody seems to notice. Source: we will not let our children participate in travel leagues and they do not want to participate in them either, for this specific reason.
- steveBK123 13d agoI umpired baseball in my early teens and even 30 years ago it was bad. Grown men getting into the face of 14 years old umpires over calls, at games for kids barely out of tee-ball. It just doesn’t matter that much. I remember a coach who would flip over 20 gallon coolers and send ice and drinks flying in the dugout.. in front of his team of 10 years old umpires olds.
- chneu 13d agoI officiated basketball, baseball, softball and volleyball about 15-20 years ago on the west coast. It was bad then. So many drunk parents in baseball. I tossed parents from basketball games for cussing at their kids. Volleyball was pretty chill tho.
- itsmartapuntocm 13d agoI would assume it’s treated as if the team of the offending parent has abandoned the match.
- daveguy 13d agoThis makes more sense. Automatic loss for the offending parent.
- wizzwizz4 13d agoIn which case, abusive parents can use the rule to retaliate against their children. Never define a rule that gives bad actors power to dictate policy. (Note: this criticism doesn't seem to apply to the actual rule.)
- eps 12d agoThis still can be gamed.
- nullisland00 13d agoSafety is far more important than deciding who won a youth match
- enaaem 13d agoHappened last week in the Netherlands. The home team (FC Utrecht) played terrible. They were down 3-1. Hooligans threw fireworks on the pitch and the match got suspended. The match was resumed three days later. Utrecht played much better en got a 3-3 draw.
- charlieyu1 13d agoWhen a ref abandons a match it is up to the board to decide what to do with the result. In senior games often the offenders get a lost. Plus this is youth games so results matter less.
- Ylpertnodi 12d ago> ...this is youth games so results matter less. Have you ever been to a kid's sporting event?
- layer8 13d agohttps://archive.ph/o4V1W https://archive.ph/o4V1W
- layer8 13d agoActual source article: https://www.frf.ro/en/frf-introduces-the-black-card-to-combat-abusive-behavior-in-youth-football/ https://www.frf.ro/en/frf-introduces-the-black-card-to-comba...
- applfanboysbgon 13d ago> The black card being brandished will be the final part of a three-step process. In the first instance, the referee will temporarily suspend the match and ask coaches to speak directly to its team’s supporters and parents, while an announcement will also be communicated to supporters should a public address system be available. > Should the behaviour continue, the referee will suspend the match for 10 minutes and send the teams off the pitch to their dressing room while once again asking coaches to attempt to de-escalate the behaviour of those in the stands. > The FRF then detail the process behind using the black card as the final step: “If abusive behaviour persists after play resumes, the referee blows the final whistle. The match is permanently abandoned and cannot be resumed.” Why is the remedy not simply ejecting the offenders? They get three chances to cancel the game, with the entirety of the punishments being towards people who did nothing wrong?
- beart 13d agoFrom my experience, the refs typically assign responsibility to the head coach of the team the fans represent. It's not the refs job to manage the fans. They are there to manage the game. If the coach or staff determine the problem fans should be removed, they can do that.
- Fred27 13d agoIf it's anything like the UK then it's likely the games are played in a public space like a park, so it might not be possible to eject the parent.
- lacunary 13d agoI don't buy it. You can kick someone out of a park for not following the rules of the park. The refs just need to be empowered.
- badgersnake 13d agoThere is nobody to do that. And nobody to make sure they don’t just come straight back.
- sippingabonedry 13d ago[flagged]
- bonoboTP 13d agoThis is Romania, not the US.
- afavour 13d agoIt’s almost as if there isn’t very much in common between Romanian youth soccer and US software development
- red_admiral 13d agoAlso, black cards already exist in other sports: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penalty_card https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penalty_card
- sandy_ilands 13d ago[flagged]
- shpx 13d agoYou can't start doing this, the only way it ends is with a full rainbow deck of cards that the referee has to spend 5 minutes digging through every time someone gets tripped.
- xandrius 13d agoDid you really pull the "slippery slope" on a change for children football matches to safeguarding them from abuse from spectators?
- bluGill 13d agoLong before it gets that far, soccer needs to end in the country. For most people, soccer is a fun, pass time, and they are not abusive, and things work well. Overall there are enough cases of abuse that they have to go one step down the slippery slope and do something. That doesn't mean they have to go all the way. I don't know where the future will go. I suspect and hope that this is as far as it ever goes. But if things continue getting worse, maybe Romania has to say, 'that's enough. We're not going to do soccer anymore'. And I'm serious about Romania completely stopping soccer in a country if things continue to get worse after this. Now there's probably a few other rules that they will need to adjust and tweak over the years, but if abusive fans and or abusive parents continue as a problem that means that the people of the country can't handle the game. No more Romania Intl the World Cup. They're not going to send a team because they don't allow soccer anymore. Don't let it get that far. Whatever sport you do. Cheer when the opposing team makes a good play. Congratulate to the on a win. I can accept bad officials as long as they're unbiased. As long as they're making bad calls against both teams or missing calls against both teams, I can deal with that. It's when the official is biased and making calls against one team that they're going to let go for the other team, that's when I have a problem. However you deal with that at the league level not in a game
- nekusar 13d agoNew way to bully unlocked: join as spectator and throw slurs to force game closure. In reality, the game needs paused, and to forcably eject bad actors, then resume game.
- Someone 13d agoFTA: “The black card being brandished will be the final part of a three-step process. In the first instance, the referee will temporarily suspend the match and ask coaches to speak directly to its team’s supporters and parents, while an announcement will also be communicated to supporters should a public address system be available.” So, that’s exactly what step one of this is: a signal to the crowd “behave yourself/make the bad actors behave themselves”.
- compiler-guy 13d agoI’m sure the league has considered less drastic actions, and in reality a group of administrators dealing with an ongoing problem know way more about possible solutions that are available and can possibly work than random HN commenters.
- lucianmarin 13d agoBasically a red card for spectators. Not sure why it is black.
- uncivilized 13d agoDid you read the article? The card stops play and can be used to end the match if abuse continues.
- Daedren 13d agoBecause it does not remove a spectator, it ends the entire match. Please read the article.
- daveguy 13d agoResult is a permanent cancellation? Does that mean the match is nullified or the winner at the time wins? Either way, one team could draw a strategic black card. Seems like cancellation of the match is not the correct outcome. What about penalizing the harassing team? A red card result for the team (down a player for the next game). This seems like an odd way to handle abusive behavior from parents. Abandoning the current game may be good if parents are behaving that way, but there needs to be a serious consequence for the parent's team too. Otherwise it will just be another tool.
- Someone 13d agoFor other kinds of match cancellations with an offending party (example: having too many players sent off), the offending party automatically loses. I expect it to be the same here, with the referee deciding who the offending party is.
- derefr 13d agoWhy are you assuming abuse by parents is solely being targeted at the opposing team’s players? Parents may just as well be shouting at their own kid for what they see as “sub-optimal” play, and at their kid’s teammates for what they see as “getting in their kid’s way.”
- daveguy 13d agoI'm not sure why you think I was assuming that. Or why either of those wouldn't be a valid reason their actions shouldn't result in punishment the most direct way possible to the parent. A loss for their own team. That's not a good outcome for someone who treats their kid as a lottery ticket no matter who they were harassing. Although I do understand the response in a sibling post that it still gives the asshat parent some degree of control over policy and outcome. It seems like you may have mistaken some of what I said as implying something about the recipient of the abuse. Nothing I said had anything to do with the recipient of abuse. Just the parent and the team they want to win for vicarious satisfaction.
- lores 13d agoAbandoned matches are reviewed by the relevant league, and depending on the reason and circumstances the match can be replayed, resumed, or adjudicated. When a side is judged to be at fault, the outcome is often a default 3-0 loss for them, on top of assorted punishments for the players/coaches/teams involved.
- jeffrallen 13d agoThe attitudes and behaviors at my son's U9 matches in Switzerland are so distasteful I started inventing excuses to not go until eventually my wife went to a tournament. She came home and said, "so that's why you don't want to go any more, huh?" Youth football is a plague on children. My other children were smart enough to choose tennis and horses. I'm counting the games until my son realizes football is cesspool and asks to do literally anything else.
- smugglerFlynn 13d ago> My other children were smart enough to choose tennis and horses I am giving you a black card warning right there, sir
- deleted 13d ago[deleted]
- ChrisMarshallNY 13d agoWe could use one for US Little League. Ever watched the parents at those games?
- LanceH 13d agoI used to introduce myself to the cop who would work each wrestling tournament our teams were in. They always had a chill time at wrestling, and I asked them which sport was the worst. Basketball. Every single one of them said basketball without hesitation.
- 4b11b4 13d agoAs a ref if I had parent who was more involved than they needed to be - I'd let em go for a while, at a good stopping point I'd blow the whistle, jog over to them, maybe slow to a walk, just slow enough that everyone would be wondering what is the ref doing what are we wasting time for... Then I'd explain to them how they are really being helpful and I really appreciate their help. You know, with just a hint of sarcasm... Make sure my explanation was loud enough for some other parents to hear. I'd never hear from them again.. hahaa I miss being a ref