3 ms·

I'm exactly the opposite. I like knowing how the code works, what the data structures are, what APIs are being used, and yes even typing the code into the edito

I'm exactly the opposite. I like knowing how the code works, what the data structures are, what APIs are being used, and yes even typing the code into the editor. When I'm working with LLMs there's less thinking. I'm bored. My brain is not fully engaged in the task. There's less sense of accomplishment in the finished product. I also prefer to drive cars with manual transmissions.

lowbloodsugar 28d ago
Yes. You are the Kung Fu master in Carmack’s analogy.
- vouaobrasil 28d ago
  Not necessarily a bad thing. Just because Carmack has an optimistic view and has some catchet in the programming world doesn't mean he's any more correct than a raving lunatic. Frankly, he said relatively little of substance and it's only made more irrelevant because he's said it from a priveleged position.
  - lowbloodsugar 26d ago
    >Not necessarily a bad thing. Agree. I made no judgement call. >Just because Carmack "Just because a man, who has some cachet with mountain climbers for being the first to climb mount everest doesn't mean he's any more correct about how to climb mount everest than a raving lunatic". That's your pitch? Carmac has shipped massive selling, fun games, using low-level, innovative techniques, back when such crazy shit was necessary. The issue is the difference between what is necessary ("Miyamoto") and what is prescriptive ("Kung Fu").
    - vouaobrasil 23d ago
      I agree, if he were talking about programming a game. But he's not. He's talking about how to have fun from a priveleged position.... If Carmack said, "you're wrong in your game design, here's how to do it instead", yeah I'd listen. Same as if Kasparov gave me chess advice. But if Kasparov said, "AI won't take the fun away from chess" then how the hell does he have any expertise on that when he's spent the majority of his chess career without AI. Let's keep in mind that he made it to world champion before Deep Blue beat him.
criddell 28d ago
Do you consider yourself to be part of the retro computer scene? > That’s ok! The retro computing scene is delightful, full of people building and exercising old skills for the love of it.
skinfaxi 28d ago
What's stopping you from slowing down and doing those things even with AI?
KronisLV 28d ago
> I like knowing how the code works, what the data structures are, what APIs are being used, and yes even typing the code into the editor. I'd say it probably depends on the kind of work you do - if the low level details are exciting then that's totally understandable. But if you're dealing with more rote CRUD work or soul sucking enterprise bullshit, then probably less so and the low level details are obstacles to getting things done, alongside sometimes unreasonable workloads. I'm reminded of: https://www.stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks https://www.stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks > Every programmer starts out writing some perfect little snowflake like this. Then they’re told on Friday they need to have six hundred snowflakes written by Tuesday, so they cheat a bit here and there and maybe copy a few snowflakes and try to stick them together or they have to ask a coworker to work on one who melts it and then all the programmers’ snowflakes get dumped together in some inscrutable shape and somebody leans a Picasso on it because nobody wants to see the cat urine soaking into all your broken snowflakes melting in the light of day. Next week, everybody shovels more snow on it to keep the Picasso from falling over. That said, AI will probably saturate most CRUD work first, which doesn't make for great job prospects.
- locknitpicker 28d ago
  > I'd say it probably depends on the kind of work you do - if the low level details are exciting then that's totally understandable. Even those who work with CRUD apps need to know things like computational complexity of standard container types, and how to pick basic data structures or choose which basic algorithms to use. Otherwise you'll end up implementing things that have an unreasonably high computational cost that will rear its head at the wrong time. > That said, AI will probably saturate most CRUD work first, which doesn't make for great job prospects. I think so too. Today's AI models excel at makeshift plumbing. The boring CRUD jobs are the first ones to go with a prompt.

lowbloodsugar 28d ago

Yes. You are the Kung Fu master in Carmack’s analogy.

vouaobrasil 28d ago
Not necessarily a bad thing. Just because Carmack has an optimistic view and has some catchet in the programming world doesn't mean he's any more correct than a raving lunatic. Frankly, he said relatively little of substance and it's only made more irrelevant because he's said it from a priveleged position.
- lowbloodsugar 26d ago
  >Not necessarily a bad thing. Agree. I made no judgement call. >Just because Carmack "Just because a man, who has some cachet with mountain climbers for being the first to climb mount everest doesn't mean he's any more correct about how to climb mount everest than a raving lunatic". That's your pitch? Carmac has shipped massive selling, fun games, using low-level, innovative techniques, back when such crazy shit was necessary. The issue is the difference between what is necessary ("Miyamoto") and what is prescriptive ("Kung Fu").
  - vouaobrasil 23d ago
    I agree, if he were talking about programming a game. But he's not. He's talking about how to have fun from a priveleged position.... If Carmack said, "you're wrong in your game design, here's how to do it instead", yeah I'd listen. Same as if Kasparov gave me chess advice. But if Kasparov said, "AI won't take the fun away from chess" then how the hell does he have any expertise on that when he's spent the majority of his chess career without AI. Let's keep in mind that he made it to world champion before Deep Blue beat him.

criddell 28d ago

Do you consider yourself to be part of the retro computer scene? > That’s ok! The retro computing scene is delightful, full of people building and exercising old skills for the love of it.

skinfaxi 28d ago

What's stopping you from slowing down and doing those things even with AI?

KronisLV 28d ago

> I like knowing how the code works, what the data structures are, what APIs are being used, and yes even typing the code into the editor. I'd say it probably depends on the kind of work you do - if the low level details are exciting then that's totally understandable. But if you're dealing with more rote CRUD work or soul sucking enterprise bullshit, then probably less so and the low level details are obstacles to getting things done, alongside sometimes unreasonable workloads. I'm reminded of: https://www.stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks https://www.stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks > Every programmer starts out writing some perfect little snowflake like this. Then they’re told on Friday they need to have six hundred snowflakes written by Tuesday, so they cheat a bit here and there and maybe copy a few snowflakes and try to stick them together or they have to ask a coworker to work on one who melts it and then all the programmers’ snowflakes get dumped together in some inscrutable shape and somebody leans a Picasso on it because nobody wants to see the cat urine soaking into all your broken snowflakes melting in the light of day. Next week, everybody shovels more snow on it to keep the Picasso from falling over. That said, AI will probably saturate most CRUD work first, which doesn't make for great job prospects.

locknitpicker 28d ago
> I'd say it probably depends on the kind of work you do - if the low level details are exciting then that's totally understandable. Even those who work with CRUD apps need to know things like computational complexity of standard container types, and how to pick basic data structures or choose which basic algorithms to use. Otherwise you'll end up implementing things that have an unreasonably high computational cost that will rear its head at the wrong time. > That said, AI will probably saturate most CRUD work first, which doesn't make for great job prospects. I think so too. Today's AI models excel at makeshift plumbing. The boring CRUD jobs are the first ones to go with a prompt.