5 ms·
How can this be stopped, from a technical perspective? Can I wrap the comms in a Faraday cage? Obviously it would be better to have this action be illegal. But
by tomrod 13d ago
How can this be stopped, from a technical perspective? Can I wrap the comms in a Faraday cage?
Obviously it would be better to have this action be illegal. But with legal privacy protections eroding in the US and other countries, it seems prudent to have a better understanding of the systems involved in the immoral surveillance.
- base698 13d agoYou learn animal husbandry and join the Amish.
- pvaldes 12d agoYou drive an used car from 2016, that is much easier.
- schmeichel 13d agoIt is possible to remove the hardware itself that is responsible for this, but depending on the car it can very involved: https://arkadiyt.com/2026/05/13/removing-the-modem-and-gps-from-my-rav4/ https://arkadiyt.com/2026/05/13/removing-the-modem-and-gps-f...
- forgetfreeman 13d agoSimple: don't own a vehicle with this capability.
- tomrod 13d agoMuch like owning a home without an HOA attached, it is becoming harder and harder to meet this requirement. It also seems to conflict with `right-to-repair` laws if the capability is legally required.
- cucumber3732842 13d ago>Much like owning a home without an HOA attached, it is becoming harder and harder to meet this requirement. The near universal proliferation of owner's associations and management groups and whatnot for developments larger than ~1ac (the EPA threshold, some states/towns have lower) is something you can lay at the feet of the Clean Water Act and it's implementation and precedents over the following decades. The exact area of the buildings, the driveways, the community park and gazebo, etc, etc, are necessary features of the site plan that makes the math that is required to meet stormwater/environmental requirements. And and some legal entity has to be responsible for that in perpetuity. Enter the HOA. This is also why HOAs often won't allow you to expand your driveway or add a non-permeable patio, it could (prob not, but still) ruin the environmental calculations they're responsible for enforcing as a condition. I'm not nearly as familiar with car regulatory stuff but I would bet a lot of money that they're using OTA telematics to check some sort of compliance box...
- thfuran 13d agoThere’s no reason that sort of compliance needs an HOA. Most places already have building codes enforced by mandatory government inspections for major renovations.
- tomrod 13d agoI believe it was Strongtowns reporting a few months back that HOAs are generally being driven by developers, the only folks with (a) land to build in bulk; (b) capital, relationships, and experience to get fully through permitting in bulk; (c) building a substantial fraction of SFH.
- cucumber3732842 13d agoStrongtowns is happy to follow the money and incentives on all sorts of other issues. Why do they just throw up their hands and say "it's the developers" on this issue? Developers don't do anything that costs money, like set up an HOA, without a reason. The developers create the HOA because you need your >1ac residential development to pass stormwater permitting. While you theoretically could make each individual .25ac parcel you're putting a house on compliant it's infinitely cheaper to just ignore all that, grade everything toward the road, dig a ditch, send the contents of the ditch through your stormwater treatment features, build in a little margin to those items, show the permitting authority the numbers that prove it passes with flying colors and when some jerk says "but what if X Y Z changes" you point to the excess you built in and tell them to GFY. Now, where it really gets evil is when you start really pinching pennies or where the rules change over the course of the process making your numbers not work. Say you've got a lot of grade, a lot of rainfall, a lot of stormwater you gotta "treat". Well, you start adding rules to the HOA. Require certain parts of the lots remains grass or planter or whatever. Disallow patios, but do allow wood decks because the municipality considers those pervious, etc, etc. Or maybe the results you've got are marginal but you throw the bureaucrats a bone by saying you'll disallow car-ports and sheds in the HOA rules to prevent people from adding impervious surface. Or maybe you're uphill of some wetlands but not close enough to be regulated by default you promise to disallow working on cars and require people pick up their pet waste and not use lawn fertilizer or some other laundry list of certain things in order to make the local town's wetlands people comfortable not raising objection and claiming jurisdiction. And of course, however these rules and plans shake out, the HOA is responsible for implementation in perpetuity.
- calvinmorrison 13d agoHow do you think right-to-repair intersects with cars? An obvious thing may be to say the software must be published or the spec released, but we've had computers in cars since the 80s. It seems like a tall task but people can and do reverse engineer entire ECU systems (See Trionic Tuning) Another seemingly very obvious one - requiring manufacturers to publish specifications regarding ALL OBD interface options. Of course this immediately runs into trouble. Saab for example gated features of the security system to prevent key reprogramming, swapping of certain components without a dial out to the internet using specific saab software that runs on a laptop and interfaces.
- tomrod 13d ago> How do you think right-to-repair intersects with cars? Strongly. You don't own the thing you purchased if you can't legally repair it or legally obtain the knowledge to repair it. At beat you're paying an overpriced lease and granting a liability waiver.
- calvinmorrison 13d agoI tend to agree. In my mind, it would be pretty cost efficient to put a builtin- system diagnostic utility in all new vehicles that provide at least moderately good tooling for the ODB. T
- bookofjoe 12d agoYou own something if you can sell it.
- ksudb 13d ago[dead]
- forgetfreeman 12d agoIt really isn't. FB Marketplace is literally awash in perfectly serviceable vehicles that don't and can't phone home. For the budget conscious among us it's also significantly cheaper to buy a "clapped out" used older car and refresh the drive train than buying new or late model.
- ranger_danger 12d agoBesides the irony of a privacy-conscious user using facebook to buy a car... those "perfectly-serviceable vehicles" are 1. no longer manufactured, and 2. will not last forever. Unless a new age of unconnected cars becomes a reality in the near future, I don't see this being a long-term solution.
- forgetfreeman 12d ago"will not last forever" doesn't comport with observed reality to date. There are literally model A's still on the road. Barring true oddities there doesn't appear to be a model of production vehicle that has gone extinct at any point in automotive history. Anyway, three of my cars are older than I am, and I am not a young man. Buying into their shit is optional.
- dragon-hn 12d agoFinding parts for older cars is a very real concern, aside from a handful of cars that are very popular with enthusiasts.
- forgetfreeman 12d agoSo pick a vehicle you can get parts for if you're worried, you've literally highlighted the solution to the problem you're claiming exists.
- ranger_danger 11d agoI meant to say their availability will not last forever.
- willis936 13d agoI've had good luck with pulling service manuals, finding the telematics antenna connectors, and unplugging them. It's popular to pull the telematics module fuse, but that typically disables internal microphones and GPS that are used by android auto and carplay. This severely degrades features spouses expect to just work. The antenna pulling is a much lighter touch.
- classified 13d ago> features spouses expect to just work Never underestimate the risks of spousal dissatisfaction.
- dylan604 13d agoI wonder if this increases or reduces the value of the car???
- tomrod 13d agoIf your buyer is an institution like Carmax or similar, lower. If your buyer is the end owner, probably increase a little bit unless they are surveillancemaxxing.
- willis936 13d agoA good question. I'm not really concerned with the answer since I don't plan on selling my cars. I'm sure a good population would pay to not have their car spy on them and I can think of very few that would pay to have it turned on. Easily reversible mods only affect price for suckers anyway.
- 4chandaily 13d agoTo whom? The owner of the car, or the manufacturer and "their partners"?
- greenavocado 13d agoYou should be using a 50 ohm 1 watt dummy load / termination. It's better at attenuating the signal than leaving the antenna unplugged.
- WarmWash 13d agoWhat sucks is that at least with my car, if you pull their access, you also lose all your remote access as well, and the ability to receive updates.
- ryandrake 13d agoWhy does a car need "remote access" and to "receive updates?" I'd consider this a bonus side effect.
- ellisv 13d agoPeople who live in cold or hot places like to prestart the climate control in their car.
- MarkusQ 13d agoWhen I was a lad we walked out to the car and did that with the key. In the snow. It wasn't that bad and, despite what you may have heard, was not in fact uphill both ways.
- tredre3 12d agoI'm sure you take advantage of a lot of modern conveniences that you didn't have as a lad, and you would prefer to not give those up.
- MarkusQ 12d agoYeah, but I still have a soft spot for the old classics like privacy, autonomy and dignity. I don't want to give up my modern conveniences, but I have and will if forced to choose.
- derwiki 13d agoWhy do you need remote access to your car? What updates does your car need?
- natch 13d ago[flagged]
- skrause 13d agoI want a car that doesn't collect the data, not one that gives a pinky promise not to sell still collected data.
- pnw 13d agoWhen given the choice between privacy and convenience, the great majority of consumers choose convenience over and over again. I'm not sure what the solution is, but it's not going to be market based if you look at any recent trends. Interest in privacy is unfortunately a niche concern outside of places like HN. Anyone who has tried to market a privacy oriented product knows what I am talking about.
- mannanj 13d agoIs it that the friction to use privacy is too high and not that interest in privacy is actually a niche concern? I imagine its friction and not indicative of interest itself.
- bix6 13d agoWhich brand? And what's to stop them from changing your opt in toggle on after an update as we've seen countless companies do time and time again?
- natch 11d agoSince 2008 they have not changed the policy. But sure, the policy could be changed if they changed management. Tesla, to answer your question.
- mnmalst 13d agoWhich brand is that if you don't mind me asking?
- Tepix 13d agoRemember that story a week ago „everything I own, owned“? That’s one way.
- codedokode 13d agoIt definitely can be stopped. For example, China sells cars internally at cheaper prices, but they are locked to prevent using them outside the country. However, there are people who can hack and unlock them allowing operating in any country. But maybe it would be illegal in the West, I don't know. Removing the modem is an easier task.
- hosteur 12d ago> How can this be stopped, from a technical perspective? It can't. Not realistically. It can be stopped by legislation. But that would require politicians who have our interests as a priority rather than the various industries. So not going to happen anytime soon.
- KurSix 12d agoYou probably can't make this reliable across every modern car without breaking something, but that's different from technically impossible
- KurSix 12d agoIt should be as mundane as pulling the SIM card from a phone (or must be)