3 ms·

That‘ll happen when you don‘t have meaningful data protection laws.

by cc62cf4a4f20 19d ago

amelius 19d ago
My question is why, with their protection laws, Smart TVs and Smart Cars are still sold in the EU?
- thfuran 19d ago
  Do they do the same spying on the models/units produced for sale in EU? It’s not actually a necessary part of the operation of the device, so it makes sense they’d be able to sell them without it.
  - ranger_danger 18d ago
    For cars they most certainly do.
- Yizahi 18d ago
  HN on average is a little behind on the general EU "privacy" stance (though I saw some recent topic about that here). EU was about privacy, a few decades ago. Nowadays it did a complete U-turn and legislates mandatory anti-privacy union-wide laws every year. - Chat Control law, now all messaging must be intercepted and monitored. - eIDAS law, mandating that web-browser vendors must now accept state issued root certificates, so that states can selectively and without any legal procedure deploy MITM attacks at will. - ADDW law, mandating that all new cars must a permanent mandatory camera and microphone surveillance module inside a car, which can't be disabled by law (bye-bye insurance if you will). There also other fun things in it like mandatory autobraking, mandatory auto lane-assist etc. - ProtectEU laws, demanding backdoors to emails and such (maybe it's the same as Chat Control, not sure). - AI Act legalizes AI surveillance over CCTV recordings without any judicial approval. - European Media Freedom (duh) Act legalizes deployment of shit like Pegasus against journalists. I'm pretty sure I'm missing a lot here too. You get the picture. EU is getting fast track into Stazi 2.0, everyone is fine with it, "because children" /s
  - majorchord 18d ago
    Breathtaking levels of misinformation here. There is no EU law that mandates "all messaging must be intercepted and monitored." There is no EU law mandating permanent, non-disableable cameras and microphones in cars. ProtectEU is not a law, not related to email and does not demand any "backdoors." The AI Act bans real-time facial/biometric recognition in public places... which is a good thing. It does not "legalize AI surveillance"... quite the opposite. EMFA does not authorize the deployment of spyware and they have publicly condemned the use of Pegasus specifically.
    - lnsru 18d ago
      There is always a citizen who honestly thinks that emperor is good and loves the citizens. The reality is that emperor loves the citizens that love the emperor and will do everything to find and destroy the citizens that don’t love the emperor. History books are full of such examples. Right now I am repairing old car that does not track me, does not film me and doesn’t try to drive me. It’s a such a great joy to drive it without stupid beeping and automatic wheel movements. Especially without suicidal steering in construction sites when the modern system fails.
    - Yizahi 18d ago
      Two can play this game. Chat Control - a) it is a law, mandatory in whole EU (because it is a "EU Regulation", and that is a law); b) I was indeed to broad and made a mistake, for now only not E2EE messages must be intercepted and monitored. E2EE is on a the chopping block in Chat Control 2.0 which is being drafted, in progress. Advanced Driver Distraction Warning (ADDW) - a) it is EU Regulation and so it is a law; b) ADDW mandates a non-disableable surveillance camera (not sure about microphone) inside a car. ProtectEU is indeed Chat Control plus extra, so here I was incorrect. Encrypted emails are temporarily safe, until Chat Control 2.0 is passed. And given how they bruteforced CC 1.0 in multiple blatant retries, it will eventually pass. Regarding EU AI Act you are replying to something I didn't write. Sure it doesn't allow real-time surveillance. I wrote that it does allow surveillance over the recorded materials. This technicality allows passing all video through storage, then monitor suspects via AI programs all without judicial approvals. And finally EMFA does authorize deployment of the spyware against journalists in cases of investigating a crime carrying 3= years penalty. Do I need to spell out how laughable that is? Practically any national security crime carry similar or heavier penalties and govt. can start a very broad and arbitrary investigation for any reason. This means that the matter of starting surveillance is a small technicality really with zero oversight.
- pvaldes 17d ago
  My guess is lobbies buying the political leaders.
derwiki 19d ago
Can I invoke CCPA to get a report of and/or delete my data?
- jboggan 18d ago
  You can invoke CCPA (if applicable) and directly ask a covered business or registered data broker for an exact output of your existing information on their systems. This is honestly rare and most companies will find ways to deny you - asking for various documents to prove your identity and hoping you quit responding. If you are a CA resident you can also get on the state's DROP platform to request that all registered data brokers delete your data, but it's only for deletion and not the other 4 types of data requests allowed under the CCPA (right to know, right to collect, right to opt out, and right to limit use).
BlackRabbit1 19d ago
All European car manufacturers pull a crazy amount of telemetry data from your car. Either via permanent 4G/5G link or during service intervals in the shop. Source: I analyzed these data as an intern for one.
- klm127 18d ago
  Can you describe it? I'm assuming speed, acceleration, GPS, infotainment use. Surely its not sending backup camera footage, chair recline position, turn signal usage.

That‘ll happen when you don‘t have meaningful data protection laws.

amelius 19d ago

My question is why, with their protection laws, Smart TVs and Smart Cars are still sold in the EU?

thfuran 19d ago
Do they do the same spying on the models/units produced for sale in EU? It’s not actually a necessary part of the operation of the device, so it makes sense they’d be able to sell them without it.
- ranger_danger 18d ago
  For cars they most certainly do.
Yizahi 18d ago
HN on average is a little behind on the general EU "privacy" stance (though I saw some recent topic about that here). EU was about privacy, a few decades ago. Nowadays it did a complete U-turn and legislates mandatory anti-privacy union-wide laws every year. - Chat Control law, now all messaging must be intercepted and monitored. - eIDAS law, mandating that web-browser vendors must now accept state issued root certificates, so that states can selectively and without any legal procedure deploy MITM attacks at will. - ADDW law, mandating that all new cars must a permanent mandatory camera and microphone surveillance module inside a car, which can't be disabled by law (bye-bye insurance if you will). There also other fun things in it like mandatory autobraking, mandatory auto lane-assist etc. - ProtectEU laws, demanding backdoors to emails and such (maybe it's the same as Chat Control, not sure). - AI Act legalizes AI surveillance over CCTV recordings without any judicial approval. - European Media Freedom (duh) Act legalizes deployment of shit like Pegasus against journalists. I'm pretty sure I'm missing a lot here too. You get the picture. EU is getting fast track into Stazi 2.0, everyone is fine with it, "because children" /s
- majorchord 18d ago
  Breathtaking levels of misinformation here. There is no EU law that mandates "all messaging must be intercepted and monitored." There is no EU law mandating permanent, non-disableable cameras and microphones in cars. ProtectEU is not a law, not related to email and does not demand any "backdoors." The AI Act bans real-time facial/biometric recognition in public places... which is a good thing. It does not "legalize AI surveillance"... quite the opposite. EMFA does not authorize the deployment of spyware and they have publicly condemned the use of Pegasus specifically.
  - lnsru 18d ago
    There is always a citizen who honestly thinks that emperor is good and loves the citizens. The reality is that emperor loves the citizens that love the emperor and will do everything to find and destroy the citizens that don’t love the emperor. History books are full of such examples. Right now I am repairing old car that does not track me, does not film me and doesn’t try to drive me. It’s a such a great joy to drive it without stupid beeping and automatic wheel movements. Especially without suicidal steering in construction sites when the modern system fails.
  - Yizahi 18d ago
    Two can play this game. Chat Control - a) it is a law, mandatory in whole EU (because it is a "EU Regulation", and that is a law); b) I was indeed to broad and made a mistake, for now only not E2EE messages must be intercepted and monitored. E2EE is on a the chopping block in Chat Control 2.0 which is being drafted, in progress. Advanced Driver Distraction Warning (ADDW) - a) it is EU Regulation and so it is a law; b) ADDW mandates a non-disableable surveillance camera (not sure about microphone) inside a car. ProtectEU is indeed Chat Control plus extra, so here I was incorrect. Encrypted emails are temporarily safe, until Chat Control 2.0 is passed. And given how they bruteforced CC 1.0 in multiple blatant retries, it will eventually pass. Regarding EU AI Act you are replying to something I didn't write. Sure it doesn't allow real-time surveillance. I wrote that it does allow surveillance over the recorded materials. This technicality allows passing all video through storage, then monitor suspects via AI programs all without judicial approvals. And finally EMFA does authorize deployment of the spyware against journalists in cases of investigating a crime carrying 3= years penalty. Do I need to spell out how laughable that is? Practically any national security crime carry similar or heavier penalties and govt. can start a very broad and arbitrary investigation for any reason. This means that the matter of starting surveillance is a small technicality really with zero oversight.
pvaldes 17d ago
My guess is lobbies buying the political leaders.

derwiki 19d ago

Can I invoke CCPA to get a report of and/or delete my data?

jboggan 18d ago
You can invoke CCPA (if applicable) and directly ask a covered business or registered data broker for an exact output of your existing information on their systems. This is honestly rare and most companies will find ways to deny you - asking for various documents to prove your identity and hoping you quit responding. If you are a CA resident you can also get on the state's DROP platform to request that all registered data brokers delete your data, but it's only for deletion and not the other 4 types of data requests allowed under the CCPA (right to know, right to collect, right to opt out, and right to limit use).

BlackRabbit1 19d ago

All European car manufacturers pull a crazy amount of telemetry data from your car. Either via permanent 4G/5G link or during service intervals in the shop. Source: I analyzed these data as an intern for one.

klm127 18d ago
Can you describe it? I'm assuming speed, acceleration, GPS, infotainment use. Surely its not sending backup camera footage, chair recline position, turn signal usage.