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I've always found it interesting when corporations start acting like public institutions. When traditionally philosophical, social contract ideas apply to thing

I've always found it interesting when corporations start acting like public institutions. When traditionally philosophical, social contract ideas apply to things like corporate governance. Or like here, where private structures get powerful and important enough to resemble government structures. The ideas we deal with when we discuss society and organization aren't exclusive to government, they relate to human nature in general. I wonder if in the future we will have more discussion of power and how to organize it in corporations, similar to what we discuss today about government.

qlte 20d ago
Well the key difference making any superficial similarities fall apart is Nvidia does not have neutral economy-wide goals of maintaining small+stable inflation, near-full employment and stabilizing financial institutions like the Fed does. Nvidia is entirely self interested in protecting their own shareholder value (that includes the incestuous web of investments ultimately ending up spent on their GPUs). The structure of the Fed is setup the way it is to limit the sort of self-serving, myopic political micromanaging that could be damaging to the economy at large. And, unlike a beneficiary of rapid growth like Nvidia, has (historically) tried to identify potential indicators warning of unsustainable bubbles that could lead to financial contagion and tries to mitigate that risk using the limited monetary tools available and their public soapbox. A similar decision making structure would potentially be very undesirable to Nvidia shareholders as caution over long time horizons would likely produce what they would consider an excessively conservative, defensive strategy to avoid putting too much air into the bubble too quickly (at the expense of their valuation).
- manlymuppet 20d ago
  Corporations certainly don't have the same goals government does, but human nature applies universally. I'm not saying that corporations should have exactly the same rules and structure as government does, but perhaps many of the ideas used to design governments can be borrowed.
  - daveguy 20d ago
    I would love for good governance principles to seep into corporations rather than the other way around. Seems about time the direction reversed.
awesomeMilou 20d ago
Yeah its soooo interesting! Totally not dystopian, just soooo interesting and fascinating to ponder these scenarios in which corporations hold equal power to national governments! Just such a curious scenario to let your mind wander about, how society would look like in these scenarios! /s I'm honestly so sick of the suspense of disbelief on this site, how is this more "interesting" to you, than the absolute sheer terror you should feel about going back to feudalism and serfdom? A typical western national state ensures that you have basic rights as a human being and aren't exploited to the death by non-government entities.
- manlymuppet 20d ago
  I'm not advocating for corporations to have equal power with governments, though. I think that's generally a terrible idea. Looking at any organization with power and people involved, perhaps we can use the same ideas that traditionally apply to government in more places. That's all I'm saying. This is not some mindless intellectual exercise to distract from how things are. In fact, as a proposal for how to reform corporate power, it's the opposite. (Also, even though I think corporate power should be limited to a very specific arm of society, and that we shouldn't encourage more corporate power, you are greatly exaggerating. Feudalism and the abolition of human rights are not right around the corner.)
- viccis 20d ago
  Lighten up
- fasterik 20d ago
  You're catastrophizing and misreading the original comment in an uncharitable way.
NooneAtAll3 20d ago
USA is trying to become corporatocracy In a country without religion, banner or ideology to unite the people in current-and-coming turbulent times, the bet is made on "unite under money, or have no money left" the way to fight it is to be principled even in front of cheaper options - and to support others like you
- manlymuppet 20d ago
  To be clear: I'm not trying to advocate for more corporate power.
ares623 20d ago
The governments of today weren't formed out of "discussions of power"
- fasterik 20d ago
  The American Revolution was very much a discussion about power. Of course, it wasn't just a discussion (we had to fight a war to defend the new form of government), but it was driven by the same concerns about the distribution of power.
- DaedalusII 19d ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Federalist_Papers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Federalist_Papers
nxobject 19d ago
> I wonder if in the future we will have more discussion of power and how to organize it in corporations, similar to what we discuss today about government. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A64rR5Dp07s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A64rR5Dp07s "You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, Mr. Beale. And I won't have it! Is that clear?! You think you've merely stopped a business deal. That is not the case. The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back! It is ebb and flow, tidal gravity! It is ecological balance! Am I getting through to you, Mr. Beale? You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today. What do you think the Russians talk about in their councils of state -- Karl Marx? They get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do."

qlte 20d ago

Well the key difference making any superficial similarities fall apart is Nvidia does not have neutral economy-wide goals of maintaining small+stable inflation, near-full employment and stabilizing financial institutions like the Fed does. Nvidia is entirely self interested in protecting their own shareholder value (that includes the incestuous web of investments ultimately ending up spent on their GPUs). The structure of the Fed is setup the way it is to limit the sort of self-serving, myopic political micromanaging that could be damaging to the economy at large. And, unlike a beneficiary of rapid growth like Nvidia, has (historically) tried to identify potential indicators warning of unsustainable bubbles that could lead to financial contagion and tries to mitigate that risk using the limited monetary tools available and their public soapbox. A similar decision making structure would potentially be very undesirable to Nvidia shareholders as caution over long time horizons would likely produce what they would consider an excessively conservative, defensive strategy to avoid putting too much air into the bubble too quickly (at the expense of their valuation).

manlymuppet 20d ago
Corporations certainly don't have the same goals government does, but human nature applies universally. I'm not saying that corporations should have exactly the same rules and structure as government does, but perhaps many of the ideas used to design governments can be borrowed.
- daveguy 20d ago
  I would love for good governance principles to seep into corporations rather than the other way around. Seems about time the direction reversed.

awesomeMilou 20d ago

Yeah its soooo interesting! Totally not dystopian, just soooo interesting and fascinating to ponder these scenarios in which corporations hold equal power to national governments! Just such a curious scenario to let your mind wander about, how society would look like in these scenarios! /s I'm honestly so sick of the suspense of disbelief on this site, how is this more "interesting" to you, than the absolute sheer terror you should feel about going back to feudalism and serfdom? A typical western national state ensures that you have basic rights as a human being and aren't exploited to the death by non-government entities.

manlymuppet 20d ago
I'm not advocating for corporations to have equal power with governments, though. I think that's generally a terrible idea. Looking at any organization with power and people involved, perhaps we can use the same ideas that traditionally apply to government in more places. That's all I'm saying. This is not some mindless intellectual exercise to distract from how things are. In fact, as a proposal for how to reform corporate power, it's the opposite. (Also, even though I think corporate power should be limited to a very specific arm of society, and that we shouldn't encourage more corporate power, you are greatly exaggerating. Feudalism and the abolition of human rights are not right around the corner.)
viccis 20d ago
Lighten up
fasterik 20d ago
You're catastrophizing and misreading the original comment in an uncharitable way.

NooneAtAll3 20d ago

USA is trying to become corporatocracy In a country without religion, banner or ideology to unite the people in current-and-coming turbulent times, the bet is made on "unite under money, or have no money left" the way to fight it is to be principled even in front of cheaper options - and to support others like you

manlymuppet 20d ago
To be clear: I'm not trying to advocate for more corporate power.

ares623 20d ago

The governments of today weren't formed out of "discussions of power"

fasterik 20d ago
The American Revolution was very much a discussion about power. Of course, it wasn't just a discussion (we had to fight a war to defend the new form of government), but it was driven by the same concerns about the distribution of power.
DaedalusII 19d ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Federalist_Papers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Federalist_Papers

nxobject 19d ago

> I wonder if in the future we will have more discussion of power and how to organize it in corporations, similar to what we discuss today about government. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A64rR5Dp07s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A64rR5Dp07s "You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, Mr. Beale. And I won't have it! Is that clear?! You think you've merely stopped a business deal. That is not the case. The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back! It is ebb and flow, tidal gravity! It is ecological balance! Am I getting through to you, Mr. Beale? You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today. What do you think the Russians talk about in their councils of state -- Karl Marx? They get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do."