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> nuclear non-proliferation has been pretty successful; we can use a similar model for AI. Development of nuclear weapons has continued, and a lot of effort go

by graemep 28d ago

> nuclear non-proliferation has been pretty successful; we can use a similar model for AI. Development of nuclear weapons has continued, and a lot of effort goes into developing delivery systems. A number of countries have acquired nuclear weapons over the years: India, Pakistan, Israel, South Africa, North Korea. More countries have kept their options open and could develop nuclear weapons if needed.

camgunz 28d ago
After over 80 years since the US used nuclear weapons against Japan, less than 5% of the world's countries have nuclear weapons, and no one's used one on another country since. If you don't think that's an incredible achievement you're unserious.
- graemep 28d ago
  My point is that it has worked for nuclear weapons because there are deterrents to using them. The acknowledged nuclear powers have all pledged to only use them in self defence. No one is going to develop AI and not use it.
  - camgunz 28d ago
    Countries use nuclear power too. The reason they don't launch nukes at the drop of a hat is MAD. I don't see how this isn't analogous to what we could do with AI.
    - bigbadfeline 28d ago
      > I don't see how this isn't analogous to what we could do with AI. Considering the article we are commenting on, the analogous proposal would be to imprison scientists for 20 years if they dare research nuclear power - no matter what kind.
      - camgunz 27d ago
        People are working really hard to not see the "until there's a federal commission and safe processes" part.
- bigbadfeline 28d ago
  > less than 5% of the world's countries have nuclear weapons Counting countries is plenty deceptive. Population is the real metric, China, India, Pakistan are all nuclear, everything added together, 50% of the world's population lives in nuke-capable countries. There are US nukes stationed in various European countries and Turkey, I didn't count them although I should have. > If you don't think that's an incredible achievement you're unserious. That "achievement" is even more deceptive. The reason Africa doesn't have nukes is their poverty, ditto for the rest of the no-nukes world, poverty is the real "achiever" here but I don't think that's something worth bragging about.
  - camgunz 27d ago
    > 50% of the world's population lives in nuke-capable countries. Are you saying you prefer Pakistan getting nukes over India's population doubling since 1975? That seems silly. Also this is only because of China and India, so this has been true and fine for over half a century. > The reason Africa doesn't have nukes is their poverty, ditto for the rest of the no-nukes world Pakistan is poor, Norway is rich. How can you possibly make this argument?

by graemep 28d ago

camgunz 28d ago

After over 80 years since the US used nuclear weapons against Japan, less than 5% of the world's countries have nuclear weapons, and no one's used one on another country since. If you don't think that's an incredible achievement you're unserious.

graemep 28d ago
My point is that it has worked for nuclear weapons because there are deterrents to using them. The acknowledged nuclear powers have all pledged to only use them in self defence. No one is going to develop AI and not use it.
- camgunz 28d ago
  Countries use nuclear power too. The reason they don't launch nukes at the drop of a hat is MAD. I don't see how this isn't analogous to what we could do with AI.
  - bigbadfeline 28d ago
    > I don't see how this isn't analogous to what we could do with AI. Considering the article we are commenting on, the analogous proposal would be to imprison scientists for 20 years if they dare research nuclear power - no matter what kind.
    - camgunz 27d ago
      People are working really hard to not see the "until there's a federal commission and safe processes" part.
bigbadfeline 28d ago
> less than 5% of the world's countries have nuclear weapons Counting countries is plenty deceptive. Population is the real metric, China, India, Pakistan are all nuclear, everything added together, 50% of the world's population lives in nuke-capable countries. There are US nukes stationed in various European countries and Turkey, I didn't count them although I should have. > If you don't think that's an incredible achievement you're unserious. That "achievement" is even more deceptive. The reason Africa doesn't have nukes is their poverty, ditto for the rest of the no-nukes world, poverty is the real "achiever" here but I don't think that's something worth bragging about.
- camgunz 27d ago
  > 50% of the world's population lives in nuke-capable countries. Are you saying you prefer Pakistan getting nukes over India's population doubling since 1975? That seems silly. Also this is only because of China and India, so this has been true and fine for over half a century. > The reason Africa doesn't have nukes is their poverty, ditto for the rest of the no-nukes world Pakistan is poor, Norway is rich. How can you possibly make this argument?