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Puts the onus on the AI companies to provide a specific replacement mechanism, no? Unless I'm unfamiliar with something else he's written that proposes somethin

Puts the onus on the AI companies to provide a specific replacement mechanism, no? Unless I'm unfamiliar with something else he's written that proposes something more specific and constructive To Tao’s credit he obviously identified the problem very clearly and admits understandably "we did not have the time to have a more consultative process, as with Leiden; but we decided that the urgency of the situation was such that we needed to release a statement sooner rather than later".

pfdietz 23d ago
> Puts the onus on the AI companies to provide a specific replacement mechanism, no? Why? If someone makes an innovation that undercuts the underpinnings of some existing institution, why are they are responsible for cleaning up its failure?
- vatsachak 23d ago
  Exactly. Mathematicians are trying to cope that math wasn't slop this whole time. Grothendieck was anti-slop but most papers are slop. I don't think AI is going to rewrite bourbaki anytime soon
  - _flag 23d ago
    With your understanding of mathematical "slop", do you believe that Deligne and Scholze, two signatories, produced or produce mathematical slop?
    - vatsachak 23d ago
      Grothendieck accused Deligne of "slop" with his proof of the weil conjecture. Scholze's math is definitely not slop. But you're taking two of the best mathematicians of the last century against my claim about averages
- tossandthrow 23d ago
  Yes it seems odd. Out sourcing construction jobs was great for the economy while leaving entire cities in rubbles. But as soon as it hits the privileged class there is a call to "provide a specific replacement mechanism".
  - keybored 23d ago
    Whose privilege are you sticking up for here in effect?
  - vatsachak 23d ago
    You mean manufacturing
    - tossandthrow 23d ago
      Yes
  - azan_ 23d ago
    Math researchers are privileged class? I can guarantee - construction workers are extremely rich compared with math phds and most of postdocs. Talking about privileged class is absolutely laughable here.
    - yuuu 23d ago
      I would bet that the parents of math PhDs are generally more privileged than the parents of construction workers.
- anthonypasq 23d ago
  The entire western world is anti-progress and pro-incumbency, and its very tightly linked to gerontocracy. Older people are desperately trying to keep a grasp on their current power and lifestyles at the expense of younger people and technology. We need to ban Waymos because taxi drivers need to be protected. We need to block housing because it would lower my property values, and eliminate property taxes while we're at it! I don't use the local schools so why should I be taxed to pay for it. We need to spend recklessly to pay my pension and have the next generation foot the bill. Its just a repulsive ideology.
- dullcrisp 23d ago
  They’re not asking them to stop working on AI, but to stop publishing mathematics.
  - pfdietz 23d ago
    In other news, evangelical christians ask scientists to stop publishing about evolution. We apparently have a moral obligation to protect existing power structures? Tao should maybe consider there are people who are indifferent to, or actively want to tear down, his institutions; why should they cooperate in preserving them? Whatever happens has to be resilient in the face of defection; any scheme where everyone is expected to agree to not use AI in a way he doesn't like will not qualify. I think he's in the "bargaining" stage of dealing with loss right now.
    - tonfa 23d ago
      > In other news, evangelical christians ask scientists to stop publishing about evolution. not sure it's comparable, but the issue is that for a lot of those mathematical results, they don't really have utility by themselves. The utility is the new branches/understanding that's being developped.
      - int_19h 22d ago
        If that was all there is to it, there wouldn't be a problem - the results don't have utility by themselves so they can just be ignored. So, why can't they just be ignored?
    - dullcrisp 23d ago
      You have a practical obligation to obey existing power structures. That’s what makes it a power structure. What do you all think is happening here? There have been people who decided what math gets published for centuries.
pred_ 23d ago
How specific and constructive it is might be debatable, but he has tried to make concrete recommendations earlier; see e.g. slides 46-51 from the ICM talk: https://teorth.github.io/tao-web/slides/age-of-ai-icm-2026.pdf https://teorth.github.io/tao-web/slides/age-of-ai-icm-2026.p... – obviously there's some way to go still.
- cevi 23d ago
  Nothing makes me respect Terry Tao more than the line "I hate Jean Bourgain" handwritten into the margin of one of Bourgain's papers. IYKYK

pfdietz 23d ago

> Puts the onus on the AI companies to provide a specific replacement mechanism, no? Why? If someone makes an innovation that undercuts the underpinnings of some existing institution, why are they are responsible for cleaning up its failure?

vatsachak 23d ago
Exactly. Mathematicians are trying to cope that math wasn't slop this whole time. Grothendieck was anti-slop but most papers are slop. I don't think AI is going to rewrite bourbaki anytime soon
- _flag 23d ago
  With your understanding of mathematical "slop", do you believe that Deligne and Scholze, two signatories, produced or produce mathematical slop?
  - vatsachak 23d ago
    Grothendieck accused Deligne of "slop" with his proof of the weil conjecture. Scholze's math is definitely not slop. But you're taking two of the best mathematicians of the last century against my claim about averages
tossandthrow 23d ago
Yes it seems odd. Out sourcing construction jobs was great for the economy while leaving entire cities in rubbles. But as soon as it hits the privileged class there is a call to "provide a specific replacement mechanism".
- keybored 23d ago
  Whose privilege are you sticking up for here in effect?
- vatsachak 23d ago
  You mean manufacturing
  - tossandthrow 23d ago
    Yes
- azan_ 23d ago
  Math researchers are privileged class? I can guarantee - construction workers are extremely rich compared with math phds and most of postdocs. Talking about privileged class is absolutely laughable here.
  - yuuu 23d ago
    I would bet that the parents of math PhDs are generally more privileged than the parents of construction workers.
anthonypasq 23d ago
The entire western world is anti-progress and pro-incumbency, and its very tightly linked to gerontocracy. Older people are desperately trying to keep a grasp on their current power and lifestyles at the expense of younger people and technology. We need to ban Waymos because taxi drivers need to be protected. We need to block housing because it would lower my property values, and eliminate property taxes while we're at it! I don't use the local schools so why should I be taxed to pay for it. We need to spend recklessly to pay my pension and have the next generation foot the bill. Its just a repulsive ideology.
dullcrisp 23d ago
They’re not asking them to stop working on AI, but to stop publishing mathematics.
- pfdietz 23d ago
  In other news, evangelical christians ask scientists to stop publishing about evolution. We apparently have a moral obligation to protect existing power structures? Tao should maybe consider there are people who are indifferent to, or actively want to tear down, his institutions; why should they cooperate in preserving them? Whatever happens has to be resilient in the face of defection; any scheme where everyone is expected to agree to not use AI in a way he doesn't like will not qualify. I think he's in the "bargaining" stage of dealing with loss right now.
  - tonfa 23d ago
    > In other news, evangelical christians ask scientists to stop publishing about evolution. not sure it's comparable, but the issue is that for a lot of those mathematical results, they don't really have utility by themselves. The utility is the new branches/understanding that's being developped.
    - int_19h 22d ago
      If that was all there is to it, there wouldn't be a problem - the results don't have utility by themselves so they can just be ignored. So, why can't they just be ignored?
  - dullcrisp 23d ago
    You have a practical obligation to obey existing power structures. That’s what makes it a power structure. What do you all think is happening here? There have been people who decided what math gets published for centuries.

pred_ 23d ago

How specific and constructive it is might be debatable, but he has tried to make concrete recommendations earlier; see e.g. slides 46-51 from the ICM talk: https://teorth.github.io/tao-web/slides/age-of-ai-icm-2026.pdf https://teorth.github.io/tao-web/slides/age-of-ai-icm-2026.p... – obviously there's some way to go still.

cevi 23d ago
Nothing makes me respect Terry Tao more than the line "I hate Jean Bourgain" handwritten into the margin of one of Bourgain's papers. IYKYK