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Show HN: Toast, a by default in-terminal IDE
https://paradise-runner.github.io/toast/ https://paradise-runner.github.io/toast/
- CamperBob2 21d agoLooks like another unreadable black hole of nothingness. God, I wish this trend would hurry up and run its course.
- dividedcomet 21d agothere are other themes, the one shown is just extending my terminal theme so it doesn’t feel out of place.
- spiderice 21d agoIronically, I understand what the "unreadable black hole of nothingness" is perfectly. But I have no idea what your comment means.
- 0gs 21d agohard to argue that the UBHON is a recurring theme these days! rimshot
- rschiavone 21d agoUnfortunately the trend is only accelerating
- gkoberger 21d agoIt's interesting that it brags about no AI as a feature, but the website (and maybe the product itself?) was clearly built using AI.
- dividedcomet 21d agoYep, I have 2 kids under 1 so this project is either built with AI or it’s not built. I put that line in because the IDE aspect doesn’t need agent management or anything. Other tools are better for that.
- bigfishrunning 21d agoIrish twins! congratulations :)
- dividedcomet 21d agoThanks so much! Only reason this got posted today is because everyone is home sick
- latexr 21d agoIt would still be nice if you stated upfront that this is built with AI. The people who are interested in “no AI features” are likely to also be the ones who do not want something built with AI. It would help to be clear about the project’s stance on the matter.
- dividedcomet 21d agoFor sure the right call, really appreciate it. Judging from the comments my lack of product and marketing skills is showing.
- adamddev1 20d agoThe first thing I notice is an AGENTS.md in the repo.
- stronglikedan 16d agoWhy? The source is available. That's all anyone ever needed before AI to determine whether they wanted to use it. Nothing has changed - any tool can be used to write good or bad code. The consumer should still be doing their due diligence.
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- gopalv 21d agoThe "Emacs doesn't have a file-tree" is when I stopped short and wondered what this person's background is in IDEs. My emacs days are 1999 during my "functional or get out" phase, but my .emacs had close to 4000 lines in it, including xterm mouse support, a clone of midnight commander + sftp to a wehbost and deep integration with ctags/cscope/c++filt. There was even a line by line debugger with custom .gdbinit commands - look at the php project's gdbinit[1] if you want an idea of how to walk your own super special data structures. You can't put Emacs in an IDE comparison and say anything about features without at least one person saying "well, actually". I eventually switched to vim but that had to do with needing to ssh into 100k+ machines on support rotation & never having emacs on any of them. [1] - https://github.com/php/php-src/blob/master/.gdbinit https://github.com/php/php-src/blob/master/.gdbinit
- alecfv26 21d agoI’m surprised you wouldn’t use TRAMP for remote access then?
- cyberax 21d agoSigh. Long time ago, in mid-2000-s I tried to switch to Emacs or Vim from Visual Studio. I wanted to have a simple project file tree as a side panel and multiple editor tabs on the right. I spent a week toying with various elisp scripts, Vim plugins, and digging out information from a then-moribund XEmacs mailing list. And I couldn't do what I wanted in the end. Nothing worked seamlessly or reliably. Can this be done out-of-the-box now?
- mplanchard 21d agoYes, speedbar, with speedbar-prefer-window set to t Or use any of the various file tree packages in [M]ELPA
- kccqzy 21d agoXEmacs has always been moribund. Use GNU Emacs.
- godelski 21d ago
- colesantiago 21d ago> "No AI features" > Sees "Claude" Now almost 90% of projects on GitHub including existing projects are now slop or are adding slop. Many projects are getting contaminated with AI, and even Linux is getting contaminated with this. There is a list of projects that have non-slop alternatives one can use instead. https://codeberg.org/ethical-foss/open-slopware https://codeberg.org/ethical-foss/open-slopware
- jjice 21d agoDo you count any use of LLMs, including highly reviewed and controlled use as "slop"? The idea that there can be no high quality use of LLMs to aid software development is lacking a lot of nuance.
- aniviacat 21d agoThe files (even the go.mod) contain references to "yourusername". You can be certain this project's LLM use was not highly reviewed and controlled.
- delis-thumbs-7e 21d agoIf it is high quality use, we would not notice the AI. It would just be good code.
- eikenberry 21d agoBut this is not what that site tracks. It lists any project with any LLM usage or potential usage (eg. permissive AI usage policy, but no evidence of AI use) without any caveats. It is an extreme, absolutely no AI usage, stance.
- colesantiago 21d ago> Do you count any use of LLMs, including highly reviewed and controlled use as "slop"? Yes. To quote the repository: "slop: Anything generated by AI, typically code, books, articles, or images." If you are reviewing AI generated code, you are already reviewing slop which is a lose-lose situation.
- kolme 21d agoVim does have mouse support.
- kccqzy 21d agoAnd so does Emacs. I don’t think this person has really used them.
- dbalatero 21d agoMaking these kinds of AI projects with fancy READMEs give you a veneer of authority, but the lack of earned wisdom tends to stick out once a few people glance at it.
- dividedcomet 21d agoYeah maybe not the best wording. It’s more meant that ideally toast can be fully used with a cursor for interactions. I don’t think you can exit vim or emacs just by clicking on a button?
- Hugsbox 21d agoVim has full mouse support. Not only can you exit, but you can even save using just the mouse.
- kccqzy 21d agoYou can: emacs has a menu bar and you can quit emacs that way. If you write code in your .emacs.d to turn off the menu bar, then I think you can be trusted to use the keyboard to quit emacs.
- gnufied 21d agoYou absolutely can exit Emacs by clicking a button! Even when it is running in terminal. You just need menu-bar-mode (which is enabled by default) and enabling xterm-mouse-mode (which also should be enabled by default) - https://asciinema.org/a/rprH0gLSkrUz2cqr https://asciinema.org/a/rprH0gLSkrUz2cqr
- jasonjmcghee 21d agoFirst file I look at (concerning): "github.com/yourusername/toast/internal/components/breadcrumbs" "github.com/yourusername/toast/internal/components/closedialog" "github.com/yourusername/toast/internal/components/commandpalette" "github.com/yourusername/toast/internal/components/editor"
- SahAssar 21d agoI'm not a golang person, but does this even compile like that? Do people not even run a build anymore?
- rolls-reus 20d agogo.mod has “module github.com/yourusername/toast” so it will compile but author probably didn’t read the code.
- Instantnoodl 21d agoA bit hilarious. I'm wondering if he even knows go or took a look at the code once :D
- schainks 21d ago> toast is for the developer who wants to stay in their terminal without spending hours getting it up to snuff. I need a terminal that just works. If it doesn't work out of the box with sensible defaults, it is indeed not up to snuff, and therefore thrown away immediately. Don't ask me to use your buggy-vibe coded thing if it's not up to snuff, right? This is coming from someone who did spend hundreds of hours learning to customize their terminal, their vim environment, and put all of it in source control to rot away.
- DanielHB 21d agoI got so annoyed with this and the fact that I do development in both mac and linux that switched to do all my development inside a container. I just made a bash script that shells into the container (or starts it if it is not already running) and in there everything is set up.
- krogenx 21d agoNow just add a terminal inside the IDE and we’re gold.
- OSaMaBiNLoGiN 21d agovim has a built in file tree. You didn't even proof-read your readme. Christ.
- dividedcomet 21d agoPoor wording, more so meant that when I drop into vim, vi, or emacs I have no way to (without some external knowledge) know how to open a file tree. Just a barrier to usage is all.
- fwip 21d agoBy external knowledge, do you mean knowing how the program you're using works?
- dividedcomet 21d agothe point of the GUI is that folks can intuit how a program works without having to be versed in how it works.
- fwip 20d agoOkay. For what it's worth, vim tells you that you can type :help to get help every time you start it up. It would take a while until you got to the section about the file tree, though.
- nosioptar 21d agoIn what way is it "beautiful"? To me, it's just yet another bland low-contrast dark mode interface. Also, vim has mouse support. Probably shouldn't use a clanker to write your readme if you're not going to take the time to do a basic fact check.
- dividedcomet 21d agoThat’s just the theme matching the terminal, there are two others out of the box but I prefer the system theme. And by beautiful I mean it has a cohesive system design and theming. I prefer to to another VsCode clone
- dim13 21d agoNerdtree is such a waste of screen real estate. I prefer netrw.
- gslepak 21d agoSo glad to see this! This is exactly what we need! Love this! I wrote this article a while back on how to build a great terminal editor that's better than Emacs and VIM [1], you might find it interesting! [1] https://gist.github.com/taoeffect/086220456e736cceb30d68834d7cc2a4 https://gist.github.com/taoeffect/086220456e736cceb30d68834d...
- iLemming 20d ago> We need something like Emacs, but a well designed Emacs. Wow. This is brilliant. Nobody ever. Not once. Not even theoretically. Nobody in 50 years of Emacs' existence ever tried that. Not a single programmer ever said this or attempted to do this. With exception of insignificant fools such as XEmacs, Zmacs, Hemlock, Climacs, Edwin, JEmacs, Yi, Lem, Guile Emacs, Remacs, emacs-ng, and the eleven thousand config frameworks that were going to fix it from the inside. I salute your effort, and may the spirit of your burned tokens please the digital gods and may they accept your sacrifice. Godspeed.
- gslepak 20d agoI recommend reading the link.
- iLemming 20d agoBuddy, I did. I did. And I can rant for a quite a while for why the opinions there have jack squat of sound reasoning. On [almost] every single point there. What I love about Vim and Emacs is that they taught me humility. I am grateful to my younger self for forcing me to learn them, deeply. They cut my enormously inflated hubris down to size, and I believe they made me not only a better programmer but a better person. I won't tell you to try that path, because that would sound patronizing, and would undo this entire paragraph.
- s_dev 21d agoI have a script that changes the background colour of my terminal based on whatever directory or server I'm in. That's enough beauty for me, I do believe there is such a thing as over configuring and defaults are very powerful. This seems like all those UI designers who have a crack at redoing Wikipedia and then fail miserably because they just plaster whatever trend on top of something that is universally good.
- LiamPowell 21d agoI don't understand the trend of forcing everything into terminals. It's needlessly constraining and it's much more work that just using Qt (or any other UI framework).
- dividedcomet 21d agoFor me it’s that why do I need another application open? I have my coding agents in the terminal, I should also be able to traverse and read a codebase in the terminal as well
- LiamPowell 21d agoWhy do you want you coding agents to be in a terminal? A terminal is missing latex rendering, inline images, a browser showing what the agent is clicking on, being able to view a spreadsheet and then select a region to reference in the conversation, clickable links when it references a specific line number with mouse-over previews, and interactive inline visualisations. A coding agent missing any of those is a significantly worse experience, yet people are for some reason willing to give up all of them to have their coding agents run in a terminal. It's not even like you get a familiar environment to work in, nothing that you set up in your terminal carries over into your agent or IDE.
- colesantiago 21d agoExactly. We need this terminal TUI nonsense trend to completely die. Stop using TUIs! They are garbage. Honestly, the GUI is more intuitive and everyone can use it.
- evanjrowley 21d agoBut GUIs are less useful for remote access unless you want to take on the challenge of creating a web front-end for everything.
- flexagoon 21d agoTerminals have had inline images for a long time at this point
- dllthomas 21d agoNeat, but I'm pretty happy with my disintegrated development environment.
- eleventen 21d agoI have long wanted a lightweight terminal-based editor that understands VS Code .code-workspace configuration files. https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/editing/workspaces/workspaces https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/editing/workspaces/worksp... I have so much shit now that I have custom workspaces to deal with because "repository" has stopped being the correct boundary to think about software development (for me). It would be great if _any_ decent editor would support these, especially Zed.
- dividedcomet 21d agoThrow an issue up there and I can try to take a whack at it!
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- pwinnski 21d agoI'm really happy that we live in a world in which people who don't know how to use the tools they have (and can't be bothered to find out) can use a coding agent to make their own tool that does what they want the way they want it to! I'm really sad that those people keep releasing those tools to other people via cookie-cutter websites filled with misinformation instead of just enjoying them privately.
- skinfaxi 20d ago> I'm really sad that those people keep releasing those tools to other people via cookie-cutter websites filled with misinformation instead of just enjoying them privately Why would that make you really sad? If something scratches your itch, it might scratch someone else's, too. It's kind of like blogging for yourself when you solve an issue.
- iLemming 20d ago> I'm really happy that we live in a world in which people who don't know how to use the tools It's not a happy world. It's dystopian. I really don't like how unskilled people get confidence for creating novelty using AI and then dare to put themselves on a pedestal next to bona fide creators. It is robbing them of trust and authenticity. My neighbor, who barely survived through high school, happily begged me to buy her book: "I created something very special to me. I'm asking my friends to support me by ordering my book. There is a lot of useful information inside based on years of research and observations, and months of putting everything together." I knew it would be complete and utter bullshit, yet I was curious. I ordered "the book". It is chock-full of misspelled words and the substance is just pure garbage. It's a waste of human potential, it's a waste of resources, but hey, now we have yet another fucking "author". Terrific.
- david38 20d agoThree IDEs in one day. What’s going on? This, txt, and Rune