6 ms·

One factor I also look at is what happens when you want to write some code on your computer and put it on your device (it does say "Hacker" at the top left). O

One factor I also look at is what happens when you want to write some code on your computer and put it on your device (it does say "Hacker" at the top left). Only Android scores well in this respect and it looks like none of the competition really cares.

jsolson 14y ago
To be fair, many of the folks on this site probably don't much care either. If you've got an Apple developer license, you can put rather a lot on your phone that Apple wouldn't let through the store. ... and of course, if you Jailbreak your phone you can put anything you damn well please on there.
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  > many of the folks on this site probably don't much care either. Because most of the people on this site aren't actually hackers, they're businessmen who use technology to make money. The "hacker" label is just used to appear hip.
  - lbotos 14y ago
    I don't know if it's selection bias at work but I've always felt that this community had a large group of influential and actual hackers. From low level stuff to language maintainers to people who worked on space shuttles. If anything, the fact that I rub e-elbows with these folks is a great feeling. In the company of giants, if you will.
    - marshray 14y ago
      Agree. There's a really special mix on this board that makes it what it is. I've seen quite a few legit hackers posting here, for many definitions of 'hacker'.
      - bcbrown 14y ago
        "quite a few hackers" != "most people are hackers"
        marshray 14y ago
        Replying to this community had a large group of influential and actual hackers.
  - jsolson 14y ago
    That may well be, but you can't dismiss someone as "not a hacker" simply because they make a different OS choice than you might. Even hackers have priorities. I'm definitely not a businessman. I'm a rank-and-file engineer for Amazon, and part of the reason I stick with that is that it gives me spare time to hack on random shit or learn some random math. I still use (and develop for) iOS for two reasons. First, when I'm not hacking I think it's a nicer OS than the competition. Second, when I am hacking on things, I think it's a nicer OS to develop for. As a hacker I can call all the private APIs I like, run in the background, fork of child processes, and really just generally make a mess of things. Oh, and I don't have to do any of it in Java (which after a day of work is a welcome relief).
    - w1ntermute 14y ago
      > Even hackers have priorities. I would say that this is incorrectly worded. People have priorities, and those priorities show whether they truly have the hacker spirit or not. > First, when I'm not hacking I think it's a nicer OS than the competition. This already exposes that you are not a hacker. If you were, you would value the increased hackability and customizability that Android gives you, rather than the my-way-or-the-highway approach taken by iOS. The fact that you think iOS is nicer than the competition means that you aren't a hacker (in the original sense of the word). > when I am hacking on things, I think it's a nicer OS to develop for. As a hacker I can call all the private APIs I like, run in the background, fork of child processes, and really just generally make a mess of things. Again, this shows you are not truly a hacker. Part of the hacker ethos is sharing, and iOS restricts how you can share by not allowing those "private" APIs to be used in apps published on the App Store. > I don't have to do any of it in Java (which after a day of work is a welcome relief). This is an issue, but I would consider it a minor one compared to the other, more important problems.
      - ryanmolden 14y ago
        Luckily we have people here who can spot "real" hackers and make such pronouncements, smh.
        14y ago
- wluu 14y ago
  All developers with an MSDN account, have a free 1 yr subscription to both the Windows 8/Windows Phone 8 store to deploy apps. With a Dev account, you can, like with Apple deploy anything you like to your Dev unlocked Windows Phone 8 phone(s).
  - jsolson 14y ago
    Sure. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I just don't have experience on that side of the fence.
abrowne 14y ago
How about writing code on your phone: https://www.touchdevelop.com/ https://www.touchdevelop.com/ ?
jasondenizac 14y ago
I'm not so sure. Granted, I have a .Net past (I currently am a full stack javascript engineer), but I really enjoy the developer experience for Windows Phone - much nicer (IMO) than with Apple and iOS, from a language, ecosystem, and tooling perspective. My Lumia 920 got here today, and the two gripes I had before - lack of 4g and a pitiful browser - have both been nicely addressed.
pimeys 14y ago
The biggest question for me is, can you develop to WP8 with Linux, vim, etc? I just have no plans to install Windows (or OSX) to any of my computers and I don't like to work with any other setup than my customized Linux desktop. But still WP8 looks very exciting. But all in all, every phone OS (except maybe Firefox OS) puts me down on this. With iOS it's OSX and Xcode and with Android you're better to use some IDE like Eclipse.
- rogerbinns 14y ago
  If you do a Linux dev environment then you are pretty much stuck with Android. (BTW I'm an Android developer who uses Linux dev environments). You can compile apps from the command line (ant is supported). There are command line tools to do all the device interoperability (eg accessing filesystem, getting logs, installing apps). However it would be unproductive to not use an IDE especially to manage the source files, their contents and locations, and debugging. Java is also very nitpicky due to static typing and the normal Java API paradigm is to never make decisions and always put layers of indirection in front of things. I joke that about half the code I "write" is actually written by Eclipse as I put in what I want and it then doubles the size putting in all the missing pieces, extra syntax, finding completions etc. Such is life with Java. The layout editing tools etc are quite nice especially being able to see previews. Eclipse sucks but it is the least worst solution and you can make working apps with it. You could use vim but you will create a lot of extra work for yourself. For the iOS work I do I use Xcode. Unbelievably it is slightly less usable than Eclipse (this is not praising Eclipse!). I am constantly astonished at things it does. Presumably eventually Stockholm Syndrome sets in and you train yourself to not do the things that hurt. For a library I am working on that has no gui elements I am actually editing the code on my Linux box using emacs with sshfs access to the files on the mac, and a ssh terminal connection in to build/run/test from the command line. To access the Mac desktop I use Remote Desktop (VNC under the hood). One thing I praise Apple for is that their VNC server implementation is excellent - very snappy especially compared to the dismal Linux experience. Chrome Remote Desktop also works although it sometimes has problems with special keys. I have the Mac sitting in the back of a cupboard with nothing connected except a USB cable that ends up on my desk where I plugin the devices. You can do some things from the command line such as building (xcode-build). I have no idea if you can install apps, get their logs etc using command line tools. If you don't want to write native apps then you can use PhoneGap. It is essentially a web shell (html widget and javascript) with various extra APIs (eg contacts access) and you provide your code as HTML+javascript. There is much debate about pure HTML5 webapps, solutions like PhoneGap, cross platform tools like MonoTouch versus native apps. Non-native approaches tend to be quicker to initially develop and port, but can have some rough edges and take longer to work at the "edges" of functionality. TLDR: I have no clue about developing WP8 apps using Linux dev environment
cmelbye 14y ago
The competition doesn't care because people don't care. Seriously. People could not care less. I got a free developer program membership and got my phone unlocked through that, but I've never used it to sideload code onto my phone and never plan on doing that. It's just not something I need to do.
ch0wn 14y ago
There are many people claiming that user's are not interested in this kind of stuff. I beg to differ. I find it fascinating how many apps on the Play Store require root permission and even more how many of them are in the Top 10 of their corresponding category.[0][1][2] With about 3.5M installations of Cyanogenmod[3] it still may only be a tiny fraction of the Android ecosystem and the mobile space in general, but it's certainly a large enough absolute number to care about. [0] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.koushikdutta.rommanager.license&feature=search_result https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.koushikdut... [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.speedsoftware.rootexplorer&feature=top-paid https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.speedsoftw... [2] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.noshufou.android.su https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.noshufou.a... [3] http://stats.cyanogenmod.com/ http://stats.cyanogenmod.com/
habosa 14y ago
I agree, this is what got me hooked on Android in the first place. Now that I understand the Android SDK and have made a few apps, any problem (even something pretty low-level) on my phone can be fixed if I'm willing to take the time to code up a solution.

jsolson 14y ago

To be fair, many of the folks on this site probably don't much care either. If you've got an Apple developer license, you can put rather a lot on your phone that Apple wouldn't let through the store. ... and of course, if you Jailbreak your phone you can put anything you damn well please on there.

w1ntermute 14y ago
> many of the folks on this site probably don't much care either. Because most of the people on this site aren't actually hackers, they're businessmen who use technology to make money. The "hacker" label is just used to appear hip.
- lbotos 14y ago
  I don't know if it's selection bias at work but I've always felt that this community had a large group of influential and actual hackers. From low level stuff to language maintainers to people who worked on space shuttles. If anything, the fact that I rub e-elbows with these folks is a great feeling. In the company of giants, if you will.
  - marshray 14y ago
    Agree. There's a really special mix on this board that makes it what it is. I've seen quite a few legit hackers posting here, for many definitions of 'hacker'.
    - bcbrown 14y ago
      "quite a few hackers" != "most people are hackers"
      - marshray 14y ago
        Replying to this community had a large group of influential and actual hackers.
- jsolson 14y ago
  That may well be, but you can't dismiss someone as "not a hacker" simply because they make a different OS choice than you might. Even hackers have priorities. I'm definitely not a businessman. I'm a rank-and-file engineer for Amazon, and part of the reason I stick with that is that it gives me spare time to hack on random shit or learn some random math. I still use (and develop for) iOS for two reasons. First, when I'm not hacking I think it's a nicer OS than the competition. Second, when I am hacking on things, I think it's a nicer OS to develop for. As a hacker I can call all the private APIs I like, run in the background, fork of child processes, and really just generally make a mess of things. Oh, and I don't have to do any of it in Java (which after a day of work is a welcome relief).
  - w1ntermute 14y ago
    > Even hackers have priorities. I would say that this is incorrectly worded. People have priorities, and those priorities show whether they truly have the hacker spirit or not. > First, when I'm not hacking I think it's a nicer OS than the competition. This already exposes that you are not a hacker. If you were, you would value the increased hackability and customizability that Android gives you, rather than the my-way-or-the-highway approach taken by iOS. The fact that you think iOS is nicer than the competition means that you aren't a hacker (in the original sense of the word). > when I am hacking on things, I think it's a nicer OS to develop for. As a hacker I can call all the private APIs I like, run in the background, fork of child processes, and really just generally make a mess of things. Again, this shows you are not truly a hacker. Part of the hacker ethos is sharing, and iOS restricts how you can share by not allowing those "private" APIs to be used in apps published on the App Store. > I don't have to do any of it in Java (which after a day of work is a welcome relief). This is an issue, but I would consider it a minor one compared to the other, more important problems.
    - ryanmolden 14y ago
      Luckily we have people here who can spot "real" hackers and make such pronouncements, smh.
      - 14y ago
wluu 14y ago
All developers with an MSDN account, have a free 1 yr subscription to both the Windows 8/Windows Phone 8 store to deploy apps. With a Dev account, you can, like with Apple deploy anything you like to your Dev unlocked Windows Phone 8 phone(s).
- jsolson 14y ago
  Sure. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I just don't have experience on that side of the fence.

abrowne 14y ago

How about writing code on your phone: https://www.touchdevelop.com/ https://www.touchdevelop.com/ ?

jasondenizac 14y ago

I'm not so sure. Granted, I have a .Net past (I currently am a full stack javascript engineer), but I really enjoy the developer experience for Windows Phone - much nicer (IMO) than with Apple and iOS, from a language, ecosystem, and tooling perspective. My Lumia 920 got here today, and the two gripes I had before - lack of 4g and a pitiful browser - have both been nicely addressed.

pimeys 14y ago

The biggest question for me is, can you develop to WP8 with Linux, vim, etc? I just have no plans to install Windows (or OSX) to any of my computers and I don't like to work with any other setup than my customized Linux desktop. But still WP8 looks very exciting. But all in all, every phone OS (except maybe Firefox OS) puts me down on this. With iOS it's OSX and Xcode and with Android you're better to use some IDE like Eclipse.

rogerbinns 14y ago
If you do a Linux dev environment then you are pretty much stuck with Android. (BTW I'm an Android developer who uses Linux dev environments). You can compile apps from the command line (ant is supported). There are command line tools to do all the device interoperability (eg accessing filesystem, getting logs, installing apps). However it would be unproductive to not use an IDE especially to manage the source files, their contents and locations, and debugging. Java is also very nitpicky due to static typing and the normal Java API paradigm is to never make decisions and always put layers of indirection in front of things. I joke that about half the code I "write" is actually written by Eclipse as I put in what I want and it then doubles the size putting in all the missing pieces, extra syntax, finding completions etc. Such is life with Java. The layout editing tools etc are quite nice especially being able to see previews. Eclipse sucks but it is the least worst solution and you can make working apps with it. You could use vim but you will create a lot of extra work for yourself. For the iOS work I do I use Xcode. Unbelievably it is slightly less usable than Eclipse (this is not praising Eclipse!). I am constantly astonished at things it does. Presumably eventually Stockholm Syndrome sets in and you train yourself to not do the things that hurt. For a library I am working on that has no gui elements I am actually editing the code on my Linux box using emacs with sshfs access to the files on the mac, and a ssh terminal connection in to build/run/test from the command line. To access the Mac desktop I use Remote Desktop (VNC under the hood). One thing I praise Apple for is that their VNC server implementation is excellent - very snappy especially compared to the dismal Linux experience. Chrome Remote Desktop also works although it sometimes has problems with special keys. I have the Mac sitting in the back of a cupboard with nothing connected except a USB cable that ends up on my desk where I plugin the devices. You can do some things from the command line such as building (xcode-build). I have no idea if you can install apps, get their logs etc using command line tools. If you don't want to write native apps then you can use PhoneGap. It is essentially a web shell (html widget and javascript) with various extra APIs (eg contacts access) and you provide your code as HTML+javascript. There is much debate about pure HTML5 webapps, solutions like PhoneGap, cross platform tools like MonoTouch versus native apps. Non-native approaches tend to be quicker to initially develop and port, but can have some rough edges and take longer to work at the "edges" of functionality. TLDR: I have no clue about developing WP8 apps using Linux dev environment

cmelbye 14y ago

The competition doesn't care because people don't care. Seriously. People could not care less. I got a free developer program membership and got my phone unlocked through that, but I've never used it to sideload code onto my phone and never plan on doing that. It's just not something I need to do.

ch0wn 14y ago

There are many people claiming that user's are not interested in this kind of stuff. I beg to differ. I find it fascinating how many apps on the Play Store require root permission and even more how many of them are in the Top 10 of their corresponding category.[0][1][2] With about 3.5M installations of Cyanogenmod[3] it still may only be a tiny fraction of the Android ecosystem and the mobile space in general, but it's certainly a large enough absolute number to care about. [0] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.koushikdutta.rommanager.license&feature=search_result https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.koushikdut... [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.speedsoftware.rootexplorer&feature=top-paid https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.speedsoftw... [2] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.noshufou.android.su https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.noshufou.a... [3] http://stats.cyanogenmod.com/ http://stats.cyanogenmod.com/

habosa 14y ago

I agree, this is what got me hooked on Android in the first place. Now that I understand the Android SDK and have made a few apps, any problem (even something pretty low-level) on my phone can be fixed if I'm willing to take the time to code up a solution.