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>mass surveillance Its not mass surveillance by the state, exclusively. Its also the potential for mis-use and corruption by criminal networks. Plus, there's

>mass surveillance Its not mass surveillance by the state, exclusively. Its also the potential for mis-use and corruption by criminal networks. Plus, there's that whole degradation of culture factor. Sure, you trust your government today. But do you trust the government of tomorrow? Anyone who thinks this is misguided is probably seeking to profit from it at some point. And that is precisely the problem.

b112 23d ago
In Norway, as an act of sensibility and kindness, prior to WWII, registers were kept at all town halls as to your religion. The point was, people wanted to be buried in the proper cemetery. It was a plus, people registered willingly. Then the Nazis rolled in. And you can imagine what happened with those registers. So it doesn't even have to be about your own government. And with digital access being a world away, it can indeed be a threat.
- pocksuppet 22d ago
  In the Netherlands the Nazis were able to exterminate Jews much more thoroughly than they had in Germany, because the Netherlands kept such meticulous records of the name and address of every Jew. And everyone else, but the Nazis were after the Jews.
lenerdenator 23d ago
> Sure, you trust your government today. Most Americans really, really don't. Gallup puts Americans' trust in major institutions, including several parts of the government, at around 30% [0] In OECD countries, trust in government sits at around 39% [1] I would say that most people in Western nations don't trust their government. Whether they agree with what all their governments are doing is another issue-by-issue matter, but I would guess they don't love that on the whole, either. [0] https://news.gallup.com/poll/712436/confidence-institutions-remains-near-time-low.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/712436/confidence-institutions-... [1] https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/oecd-survey-on-drivers-of-trust-in-public-institutions-2024-results_9a20554b-en.html https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/oecd-survey-on-drivers-...
- woodgala 23d ago
  They say that and then act the opposite. The cognitive dissonance is astonishing. Consider the MAGA deep state narrative and how it literally now exists because of them.
  - kmoser 23d ago
    Distrust of the government comes in different levels: you can be just distrustful enough to be skeptical yet accepting, and so distrustful that you actively try to vote the bums out. I don't think the polls distinguish between them.
  - pessimizer 23d ago
    Trump didn't bring the CIA and MI6 into existence. That's liberal cope from the years they spent yelling about how secret police were actually good now, because they didn't like Trump. Well now they like Trump - happy?
    - ilinx 23d ago
      Which “liberals” are you talking about? My circle of leftists complained about the CIA just as much during the Obama administration.
    - woodgala 23d ago
      lol. Talk about cope. You just invented a strawman and assumed it was my position so that you could claim victory. I guess you don’t know many progressives because by and large the CIA has been considered problematic forever. But it wasn’t celebrated the way MAGA cheers for ICE.
      - quickthrowman 23d ago
        I would encourage you to refrain from saying things like ‘lol. Talk about cope.’ here, let your argument stand on its own without baiting the other person into responding emotionally. I’m not offering this advice because I’m perfect either, I find it difficult sometimes to be respectful of someone I disagree with. You can take it or leave it, I’ll just say editing those sorts of things out of my own posts has been helpful.
pizzly 23d ago
Also add corporations. Insurance companies, Banks, Potential Employers, etc will definitively use mass surveillance and AI generated predictions based on that mass surveillance.
ndsipa_pomu 23d ago
> Its not mass surveillance by the state, exclusively. > Its also the potential for mis-use and corruption by criminal networks. But you repeat yourself

b112 23d ago

In Norway, as an act of sensibility and kindness, prior to WWII, registers were kept at all town halls as to your religion. The point was, people wanted to be buried in the proper cemetery. It was a plus, people registered willingly. Then the Nazis rolled in. And you can imagine what happened with those registers. So it doesn't even have to be about your own government. And with digital access being a world away, it can indeed be a threat.

pocksuppet 22d ago
In the Netherlands the Nazis were able to exterminate Jews much more thoroughly than they had in Germany, because the Netherlands kept such meticulous records of the name and address of every Jew. And everyone else, but the Nazis were after the Jews.

lenerdenator 23d ago

> Sure, you trust your government today. Most Americans really, really don't. Gallup puts Americans' trust in major institutions, including several parts of the government, at around 30% [0] In OECD countries, trust in government sits at around 39% [1] I would say that most people in Western nations don't trust their government. Whether they agree with what all their governments are doing is another issue-by-issue matter, but I would guess they don't love that on the whole, either. [0] https://news.gallup.com/poll/712436/confidence-institutions-remains-near-time-low.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/712436/confidence-institutions-... [1] https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/oecd-survey-on-drivers-of-trust-in-public-institutions-2024-results_9a20554b-en.html https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/oecd-survey-on-drivers-...

woodgala 23d ago
They say that and then act the opposite. The cognitive dissonance is astonishing. Consider the MAGA deep state narrative and how it literally now exists because of them.
- kmoser 23d ago
  Distrust of the government comes in different levels: you can be just distrustful enough to be skeptical yet accepting, and so distrustful that you actively try to vote the bums out. I don't think the polls distinguish between them.
- pessimizer 23d ago
  Trump didn't bring the CIA and MI6 into existence. That's liberal cope from the years they spent yelling about how secret police were actually good now, because they didn't like Trump. Well now they like Trump - happy?
  - ilinx 23d ago
    Which “liberals” are you talking about? My circle of leftists complained about the CIA just as much during the Obama administration.
  - woodgala 23d ago
    lol. Talk about cope. You just invented a strawman and assumed it was my position so that you could claim victory. I guess you don’t know many progressives because by and large the CIA has been considered problematic forever. But it wasn’t celebrated the way MAGA cheers for ICE.
    - quickthrowman 23d ago
      I would encourage you to refrain from saying things like ‘lol. Talk about cope.’ here, let your argument stand on its own without baiting the other person into responding emotionally. I’m not offering this advice because I’m perfect either, I find it difficult sometimes to be respectful of someone I disagree with. You can take it or leave it, I’ll just say editing those sorts of things out of my own posts has been helpful.

pizzly 23d ago

Also add corporations. Insurance companies, Banks, Potential Employers, etc will definitively use mass surveillance and AI generated predictions based on that mass surveillance.

ndsipa_pomu 23d ago

> Its not mass surveillance by the state, exclusively. > Its also the potential for mis-use and corruption by criminal networks. But you repeat yourself