4 ms·

The far right's win in Germany is sending a chill through Europe's establishment

53 points by firefax 18d ago

redeeman 18d ago
"far right" (gets 44% of votes.. lets not talk about that)
- DiogenesKynikos 18d ago
  The Nazi party got 37% of votes nationwide (not just in one state). Getting a lot of votes does not mean a party is not far-right. Germans of all people know that.
  - cyberpunk 18d ago
    I have a feeling that the majority of AFD voters simply want some kind of change and action on what they are seeing happen in Germany. I'm definitely not one of them, (and being an auslander myself I have skin in this game) -- this is a failure of the other parties more than it's a victory for AFD. But then again, that's all it takes really.
    - DiogenesKynikos 18d ago
      If you're a foreigner who's rooting for the fascists, you're an idiot. They want to deport you.
      - cyberpunk 18d ago
        ? What did I say that gave that opinion? Of course I'm not rooting for the fascists...
        RIMR 18d ago
        Elsewhere in this thread, you talk about how it's unfair that the far-right gets compared to Nazis, but here you call them fascists. What a weird position to be in, where you acknowledge the fascism but think Nazi comparisons go too far...
        cyberpunk 18d ago
        See, this sort of thing is exactly is why they're going to continue to make progress. This attitude of painting all of them with the same brush and calling them nazis exactly is the thing that creates more nazis. You're the problem here. I'm not on the side of the AFD, never will be -- and let me be clear: I and my family are directly impacted if they take power. I don't think calling literal nazis nazis is a problem, my point, if you read it properly is that shutting down the (reasonable or not) concerns of a big chunk of the population and calling them all nazis only makes them more extreme, and grows their power. We need a better way.
      - sajithdilshan 18d ago
        So what? Is he only allowed to play victim? What kind of a dumb logic is that
    - idontwantthis 18d ago
      Fascists inherently do not care why people voted for them.
    - misguidedrightf 18d ago
      This was a state election. This state was the first to elect nazis pre nazi dictatorship. Let's not jump to any crazy conclusions. In 2020, florida was called for trump and biden won. Saying florida was a sign of things to come was simply not true.
  - balarjin 18d ago
    What is the "far-right" far from? In normal English, it would be from the average (median) voter. A party is "far-right" (or "far-left") if it is substantially to the right (left) of the average voter. Assume that people vote for the person/party closest to their own view on an issue. 44% of voters choose the far-right candidate, meaning 44% of voters are closer to the far-right candidate than any other option. How can this happen? Several ways, but only one is realistic: the other candidates are even farther away (to the left or right) from the position of the median voter. 40%+ of voters are themselves "far-right". > The Nazi party got 37% of votes nationwide (not just in one state). The Nazi party was not that far to the right of the median German voter at the time. The far-left is using scary words ("Nazi", "Far-right", etc.) to tar a group they dislike (see what I did there?) They are counting on the fact that most voters can be influenced by group-think and name-calling. They are probably correct. But this is Hacker News, and the people here ought to be smart enough to see this for the stupid political smear that it obviously is. If you don't like a party, make the case that their policy is wrong. If vague analogy to the Nazis is the best argument you have, then you have no argument at all.
    - berytos_storm 18d ago
      [flagged]
  - bell-cot 18d ago
    That comparison is depressingly applicable. The National Socialists gained power in a period when both the present and future looked very bleak to a large fraction of German voters, and a whole succession governments formed by political mainstream figures had demonstrated that they couldn't do squat to really fix things - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weimar_Republic#Renewed_crisis_and_decline_(1930%E2%80%931933) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weimar_Republic#Renewed_crisis... If https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_II had not done such a comprehensive job of discrediting hereditary nobility, it might be healthier if German voters had the option to replace their elected government with a ruling Kaiser for 4 or 5 years. Ideally, that would lessen the appeal of more-extreme political parties. And the threat of indefinite irrelevance (the Kaiser could be reelected) might even motivate the politicians to occasional competence.
  - sajithdilshan 18d ago
    This is exactly the arrogant narrative that pushes more people to vote for AfD. It’s the people’s right to vote for any party they want and that’s part of the democratic process. Labelling or bullying people because they have exercised their right and calling them Nazis is not gonna make them change their mind at all. After all who are you or anyone else to say that what other person has voted is right or wrong. You can have your opinion, but you cannot judge them
    - DiogenesKynikos 15d ago
      This is a completely absurd comment. I'm calling the AfD Nazis because that's exactly what they are. Of course when people vote for a Nazi party, that's extremely alarming, and I have every right to say that they're wrong to do so. If the AfD comes to power in Germany, it will be a disaster for the country, and not only for the country. Germany tried fascism once before in its history, and we all know how that turned out.
- RIMR 18d ago
  When people say "far right," they mean "authoritarian right," not "fringe right." Just because authoritarianism has emerged from the fringes doesn't make it any less authoritarian.
- ksec 18d ago
  This isn't really news. Media has been calling anyone which does not align with their views as far right for more than a decade.
  - Daishiman 18d ago
    Is the AfD a party in favor of liberal democracy? Enlighten us about where you'd palce their ideas in the political spectrum.
    - ksec 18d ago
      I wasn't specifically speaking of Afd, but overall general direction of the term used by media. How many people who are moderate and haven't changed their views on things moved from moderate to being labeled as far right. Anyway this topic shouldn't even be on HN. The story will likely be flagged soon.
      - mdp2021 18d ago
        > Anyway this topic shouldn't even be on HN Oh, it should. Where should we discuss it? Because we really should discuss it.
      - Daishiman 18d ago
        > Anyway this topic shouldn't even be on HN. The story will likely be flagged soon. We are building a literal surveillance state tech dystopia funded by the sorts of VCs that employ a lot of the people in this site and you think that news about who will have control over this and what they plan to do with it is off-topic?
  - SaturnIC 18d ago
    [flagged]
- tomjen3 18d ago
  Right and left has little meaning in modern politics. What is a bit more concerning is the allegations of getting money from Russian. As for a resurgence of the nazi horror: their leader is in a mixed race lesbian relationship.
- NikolaNovak 18d ago
  I think typically the term "Far" is meant to denote where it lies on political spectrum, and has fairly well understood typical brew of populist/authoritarian/nationalistic/xenophobic, with themes of strength, unity, and focus on "in" and "out" groups It does not mean fringe or rare or low-in-numbers - unfortunately, "far right politics" have frequently been in the majority in our history and will certainly be again :-/
- misguidedrightf 18d ago
  *44% of a Saxony-Anhalt state election. Let me know when the heart of Berlin gets anything near that. Also, the Free State of Anhalt was the first Weimar state to elect a local parliament with a Nazi leader. History sure does rhyme.
cyberpunk 18d ago
When no political party is willing to address the immigration issue that clearly is forefront on the minds of such AFD voters, what did you expect them to do? Vote CDU? Do we all think that another 8, 10 years of being "firewalled" out of national poltitics and being told they're all nazis (I'm sure some of them are, but nowhere near all) is going to make them less or more extreme? It's hard work making a society that caters to everyone, but the approach of ignoring and belittling a large group and ignoring their concerns entirely has a shelf life, and we aren't going to like the results. But hey, the boomers will all get their pensions and continue to vote CDU so that's all that matters.
- DiogenesKynikos 18d ago
  > being told they're all nazis (I'm sure some of them are, but nowhere near all) Many of their senior leaders are Nazis. The head of the party in the state of Thuringia used to write pro-Hitler articles under a pseudonym. > ignoring and belittling a large group and ignoring their concerns entirely The AfD doesn't address their problems either. It tells them that all of their problems are because of foreigners and immigrants. What's the AfD's solution for affordable housing? Deport immigrants to free up apartments. What's their solution for creating jobs? Deport immigrants. This is a party that wants to deport all German citizens who don't have a sufficient quantum of German blood. There's no need to pretend the party is anything other than what it is: a fascist party.
  - martin_bech 18d ago
    Whats your solution to the immigration problem in Germany?
    - NikolaNovak 18d ago
      That's a trick question though, and it cunningly pre-supposes / takes-for-granted there IS an "immigration problem", and implicitly that "the immigration problem is the root cause of other problems" (as opposed to, "there are real problems, and some people would like you to think they're because of immigration").
SaturnIC 18d ago
[dead]
LarryDarrell 18d ago
When economic reforms are off the table, and austerity has run out of things to be austere about... yeah, anti-immigrant political parties are going to feast. Here in the US, there's a dumber revival of the Red Scare. The scare mongering isn't as effective this go round because there's no existing abundance for the people. All people want is affordable housing, jobs that let you plan for the future, and healthcare that won't bankrupt you. But there's no solution to any of those problems that don't involve some class of investors losing money/power. So we're stuck with MAGA. Incoherent ideology for incoherent times. When I look at the AfD, I see the same helpless thrashing taking hold.
- martin_bech 18d ago
  Its kind of the same as Maga, in the way that the people, and the politicians want very different things.. the people want a stop to crazy levels of immigration, and a stop to the EU deciding how they live their lives, and the politicians wants immigration, censorship and the EU to decide everything.. people voting Afd is primarily anti immigration and anti establishment.
- lelanthran 18d ago
  > All people want is affordable housing, jobs that let you plan for the future, and healthcare that won't bankrupt you. Right. I want to see the Democrats campaigning on those things. Midterm is near, they should be getting their We-Wont-Let-AI-Take-Your-Jobs campaign in motion. > But there's no solution to any of those problems that don't involve some class of investors losing money/power. So we're stuck with MAGA. You got MAGA because the Dems specifically went the diversity route, instead of at least pretending to address the concerns of the voters. This time round they've been handed an opportunity on a golden platter: Go anti-AI, at least enough so that people aren't worried about losing their jobs to AI. They will not see an opportunity like this for a long time, and if MAGA wins again, blame will lie squarely on Dems who decided that arguing about men in women's sport is a productive use of their voter goodwill.
antibull 18d ago
[dead]
786562354238 18d ago
[dead]
x3haloed 18d ago
I hate this timeline.
reeredfdfdf 18d ago
I'm worried of what European defense will look like if some day France, Germany and UK are all ruled by populist parties with historical ties / understanding attitude towards to Russia & skepticism towards NATO and EU. Not good for us here in Eastern frontier of EU. Traditional parties have failed badly in economic and migration policies, and Russia does its best to exploit this. They can't win on a battlefield against united Europe, but if small Eastern European countries are left without support, then Russia has much better odds against them.
- cute_boi 18d ago
  Liberal party is sacrificing everything just to create a vote bank. They know immigrants will always vote them as Right don't like immigrants.
  - sajithdilshan 18d ago
    Irony is that the after naturalisation, the immigrant actually votes for the Right parities. That happened in US as well as in Germany
    - cute_boi 18d ago
      Depends on who is going to give freebies. These politicians are making people poor and giving freebies to win elections ...
      - sajithdilshan 18d ago
        If you think about it, it take years to naturalisation and also has to qualify for that. As an example in Germany you will not be qualified for naturalisation if you’re on social benefits. The immigrants that become naturalised are 99% of the cases hard working people that build their lives from scratch and want the prosperity for their families. That way they don’t need any freebies and just wants a functioning and growing economy where their children would have a better future
- 18d ago
adrlkh 18d ago
If they win the federal elections, this will be the biggest betrayal of voters ever. Musk will have a chat with Goldman Sachs, Goldman Sachs will have a chat with Weidel, then the following will happen: - The Ukraine war will continue to be supported for the benefit of Blackrock and to tie up Russia for the middle east plans of the US. - There will be a lot of noise about immigration. Some 1000 people will be deported for the headlines, but Weidel will obey the industry that uses immigration for union busting, driving down salaries and driving up rents. - Social services will be cut for everyone, including AfD voters. - Weidel will discover that she can use state TV and refrain from abolishing it. - Military spending will increase according to Hegseth's wishes. This is the biggest con in post-war German election history.
cute_boi 18d ago
I don't understand why we even give the right an opportunity to speak on immigration. Is it really that hard to allow only legal immigration and stop giving incentives to illegal immigrants? I understand that there may be around 5% of people who are genuinely trying to escape dictatorships, but if 95% are just gaming the system, it's going to look very bad.
- balarjin 18d ago
  > Is it really that hard to allow only legal immigration and stop giving incentives to illegal immigrants? Illegal immigrants are a source of cheap labor. Business interests tell politicians that without a pool of cheap workers, costs will go up, voters will feel inflation, and the politicians will get the blame. The overall cost is not low. Some illegal immigrants get benefits. Some illegal immigrants commit crimes. Almost all illegal immigrants will use the healthcare system eventually. But those costs are not seen by the businesses that push illegal immigration.
  - hn_acker 18d ago
    > The overall cost is not low. Some illegal immigrants get benefits. > But those costs are not seen by the businesses that push illegal immigration. Do you have a source about the cost? As of 2023, noncitizen immigrants generally and illegal immigrants specifically were a net positive to fiscal burden [1]: > Illegal noncitizens were only somewhat less fiscally positive per capita than noncitizens generally, and they likely reduced the deficit by at least $1.7 trillion from 1994 to 2023. Illegal immigrants of all educational attainments are also likely to have paid more in taxes than they received in government benefits. Although we adopt simple assumptions, it is difficult to arrive at a conclusion significantly different from the one below. Even if illegal immigrants used benefits at the exact same rate as all noncitizens, they would still be, on average, fiscally beneficial to the United States—both by reducing the debt in real terms and by lowering debt-to-GDP. > Almost all illegal immigrants will use the healthcare system eventually. If by almost all you mean that most illegal immigrants get pathways to permanent residence/citizenship (unclear to me whether that's true), it's not very relevant unless you propose that after becoming legal residents illegal immigrants burden the economy/budget more than always-legal residents do. Otherwise, I would wonder whether the national birth rate issue [2] is as urgent as I've heard. [1] https://www.cato.org/white-paper/immigrants-recent-effects-government-budgets-1994-2023#why-illegal-immigrants-were-fiscally-positive https://www.cato.org/white-paper/immigrants-recent-effects-g... [2] https://phys.org/news/2026-06-birth-declining-world.html https://phys.org/news/2026-06-birth-declining-world.html
giraffe_lady 18d ago
The far right's win on hacker news goes mostly without comment, however. Very uh, interesting views you guys got in here.
- archagon 18d ago
  Seconded. I guess it makes sense with tech leaders like Musk and DHH making white supremacy fun and cool again. But the internet always remembers, and will continue to remember when these things are not fun and cool anymore.
pbasista 18d ago
I assume that these populist, extremist or dictator-willing-to-be politicians, not only in Germany but also in other European countries, in Russia, in the US, in Canada, as well as in China and elsewhere, are now all spending countless AI tokens to perfect their psychological manipulation and brainwashing techniques. So that they can secure more and more fanatic followers who will vote for them no matter what. And so that they can remain in power for as long as possible. To them, the "illegal immigration issue" is just a vehicle to gain power. Nothing more. Because, from what I can see, their only and actual goal is to get in power. No matter the cost. Then abuse it to the benefit of them and their friends. And never ever give it up ever again.
- rdm_blackhole 18d ago
  > to them, the "illegal immigration issue" is just a vehicle to gain power. Nothing more. If what you said made any sense whatsoever, then the parties currently in charge would have stopped it along time ago. Because if according to you that makes the far-right parties grow stronger, then why would anyone in their right mind not do anything about it? Why wait for these parties to use this issue to fuel their growth?
  - Timon3 18d ago
    The CDU has been trying to adopt more AfD positions and talking points, in the hopes of getting their votes. Meanwhile this keeps only strengthening the AfD, but the CDU would rather see the fascists in power than govern with anyone left of center.
    - pbasista 18d ago
      > CDU has been trying to adopt more AfD positions > this keeps only strengthening the AfD I am unfamiliar with the details of German politics but if what you say is true, I am not surprised at all. I do not think that one can "win" against those parties by using their methods or adopting their positions. Because they are genuine at it. While the others would only fake it. If the voters have a choice between a fake populist and a genuine populist, they would, in my opinion, naturally pick the genuine one. I think that one of the reasons is that the "fakeness" is not very appealing to anyone. So they prefer the "real deal".
sajithdilshan 18d ago
There was a lot of hope when the current German government was elected. The current chancellor did his campaign saying the leftist-green ideological politics would be over and he is going to drastically reduce the government spending and cut bureaucracy and lift up the economy. People believed him and majority voted for a center right government. However, as soon as he came to power, he broke the promise of fiscal discipline and cutting spending and the first thing he did was passed a bill to burrow more than half a trillion Euros under the votes of old parliament even changing the constitution. Also because of the firewall they have imposed to AfD, for him the only coalition partner was SPD( which is more of a left leaning party) and they formed a government and since then it has been internal conflicts to pass the important legislations to get the country back on track. All these has worked as a boost for the AfD because people realised that apart from AfD the only other main right conservative party in Germany is CDU/CSU (which is the party of the chancellor) and voting for them hasn’t resulted in the change they voted in last election and now, they don’t have any other choice than voting for AfD because voting for the same old parties expecting a different result would be the definition of insanity.
- cyberpunk 18d ago
  The OECD calculates Germany's 2025 tax wedge at 49.3%. That's the second highest behind belgium. So we get to work for the state about half the time (including VAT etc), and on-top of it thanks to the Merz masterstroke we're getting an additional 800bn debt between now-2030. Meanwhile, everything seems to be getting worse. We need significant reductions in spending, and I don't think anyone has any clue how to achieve it before the house of cards falls down completely.
  - sajithdilshan 18d ago
    Soon the Germany would be stuck between a rock and a hard place when it comes to fiscal responsibility. They cannot depreciate the currency because Euro is controlled by Brussels and to pay the interest on debt, they would have to borrow even more and the vicious cycle would continue till they are back in Weimar Republic 2.0
  - 18d ago
general1465 18d ago
As a European, I am not worried at all. AfD promises are a complete nonsense which will make everything in Germany worse (Leaving Euro, EU) or require cooperation of other countries (Deportations) so they will either not even try or try and fail. Then after 4-5 years of barking achieve nothing and will get voted out.
- jq-r 18d ago
  You’ve projected the best outcome, but there are worse outcomes than that. They can proclaim it’s a major crisis and suspend elections indefinitely. Wars follow and those frigging suck to put it nicely.
mizzao 18d ago
I've found this book to be particularly instructive in understanding how policies across the world ended up neglecting citizens and pushing them to the far right, from Trump to AfD and everything in between. It's made it clearer that these are common symptoms that arise from systemic problems, not one-off idiosyncrasies. After the Fall: From the End of History to the Crisis of Democracy, How Politicians Broke Our World https://shapiro.macmillan.yale.edu/publications/books/after-fall https://shapiro.macmillan.yale.edu/publications/books/after-...

53 points by firefax 18d ago

redeeman 18d ago

"far right" (gets 44% of votes.. lets not talk about that)

DiogenesKynikos 18d ago
The Nazi party got 37% of votes nationwide (not just in one state). Getting a lot of votes does not mean a party is not far-right. Germans of all people know that.
- cyberpunk 18d ago
  I have a feeling that the majority of AFD voters simply want some kind of change and action on what they are seeing happen in Germany. I'm definitely not one of them, (and being an auslander myself I have skin in this game) -- this is a failure of the other parties more than it's a victory for AFD. But then again, that's all it takes really.
  - DiogenesKynikos 18d ago
    If you're a foreigner who's rooting for the fascists, you're an idiot. They want to deport you.
    - cyberpunk 18d ago
      ? What did I say that gave that opinion? Of course I'm not rooting for the fascists...
      - RIMR 18d ago
        Elsewhere in this thread, you talk about how it's unfair that the far-right gets compared to Nazis, but here you call them fascists. What a weird position to be in, where you acknowledge the fascism but think Nazi comparisons go too far...
        cyberpunk 18d ago
        See, this sort of thing is exactly is why they're going to continue to make progress. This attitude of painting all of them with the same brush and calling them nazis exactly is the thing that creates more nazis. You're the problem here. I'm not on the side of the AFD, never will be -- and let me be clear: I and my family are directly impacted if they take power. I don't think calling literal nazis nazis is a problem, my point, if you read it properly is that shutting down the (reasonable or not) concerns of a big chunk of the population and calling them all nazis only makes them more extreme, and grows their power. We need a better way.
    - sajithdilshan 18d ago
      So what? Is he only allowed to play victim? What kind of a dumb logic is that
  - idontwantthis 18d ago
    Fascists inherently do not care why people voted for them.
  - misguidedrightf 18d ago
    This was a state election. This state was the first to elect nazis pre nazi dictatorship. Let's not jump to any crazy conclusions. In 2020, florida was called for trump and biden won. Saying florida was a sign of things to come was simply not true.
- balarjin 18d ago
  What is the "far-right" far from? In normal English, it would be from the average (median) voter. A party is "far-right" (or "far-left") if it is substantially to the right (left) of the average voter. Assume that people vote for the person/party closest to their own view on an issue. 44% of voters choose the far-right candidate, meaning 44% of voters are closer to the far-right candidate than any other option. How can this happen? Several ways, but only one is realistic: the other candidates are even farther away (to the left or right) from the position of the median voter. 40%+ of voters are themselves "far-right". > The Nazi party got 37% of votes nationwide (not just in one state). The Nazi party was not that far to the right of the median German voter at the time. The far-left is using scary words ("Nazi", "Far-right", etc.) to tar a group they dislike (see what I did there?) They are counting on the fact that most voters can be influenced by group-think and name-calling. They are probably correct. But this is Hacker News, and the people here ought to be smart enough to see this for the stupid political smear that it obviously is. If you don't like a party, make the case that their policy is wrong. If vague analogy to the Nazis is the best argument you have, then you have no argument at all.
  - berytos_storm 18d ago
    [flagged]
- bell-cot 18d ago
  That comparison is depressingly applicable. The National Socialists gained power in a period when both the present and future looked very bleak to a large fraction of German voters, and a whole succession governments formed by political mainstream figures had demonstrated that they couldn't do squat to really fix things - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weimar_Republic#Renewed_crisis_and_decline_(1930%E2%80%931933) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weimar_Republic#Renewed_crisis... If https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_II had not done such a comprehensive job of discrediting hereditary nobility, it might be healthier if German voters had the option to replace their elected government with a ruling Kaiser for 4 or 5 years. Ideally, that would lessen the appeal of more-extreme political parties. And the threat of indefinite irrelevance (the Kaiser could be reelected) might even motivate the politicians to occasional competence.
- sajithdilshan 18d ago
  This is exactly the arrogant narrative that pushes more people to vote for AfD. It’s the people’s right to vote for any party they want and that’s part of the democratic process. Labelling or bullying people because they have exercised their right and calling them Nazis is not gonna make them change their mind at all. After all who are you or anyone else to say that what other person has voted is right or wrong. You can have your opinion, but you cannot judge them
  - DiogenesKynikos 15d ago
    This is a completely absurd comment. I'm calling the AfD Nazis because that's exactly what they are. Of course when people vote for a Nazi party, that's extremely alarming, and I have every right to say that they're wrong to do so. If the AfD comes to power in Germany, it will be a disaster for the country, and not only for the country. Germany tried fascism once before in its history, and we all know how that turned out.
RIMR 18d ago
When people say "far right," they mean "authoritarian right," not "fringe right." Just because authoritarianism has emerged from the fringes doesn't make it any less authoritarian.
ksec 18d ago
This isn't really news. Media has been calling anyone which does not align with their views as far right for more than a decade.
- Daishiman 18d ago
  Is the AfD a party in favor of liberal democracy? Enlighten us about where you'd palce their ideas in the political spectrum.
  - ksec 18d ago
    I wasn't specifically speaking of Afd, but overall general direction of the term used by media. How many people who are moderate and haven't changed their views on things moved from moderate to being labeled as far right. Anyway this topic shouldn't even be on HN. The story will likely be flagged soon.
    - mdp2021 18d ago
      > Anyway this topic shouldn't even be on HN Oh, it should. Where should we discuss it? Because we really should discuss it.
    - Daishiman 18d ago
      > Anyway this topic shouldn't even be on HN. The story will likely be flagged soon. We are building a literal surveillance state tech dystopia funded by the sorts of VCs that employ a lot of the people in this site and you think that news about who will have control over this and what they plan to do with it is off-topic?
- SaturnIC 18d ago
  [flagged]
tomjen3 18d ago
Right and left has little meaning in modern politics. What is a bit more concerning is the allegations of getting money from Russian. As for a resurgence of the nazi horror: their leader is in a mixed race lesbian relationship.
NikolaNovak 18d ago
I think typically the term "Far" is meant to denote where it lies on political spectrum, and has fairly well understood typical brew of populist/authoritarian/nationalistic/xenophobic, with themes of strength, unity, and focus on "in" and "out" groups It does not mean fringe or rare or low-in-numbers - unfortunately, "far right politics" have frequently been in the majority in our history and will certainly be again :-/
misguidedrightf 18d ago
*44% of a Saxony-Anhalt state election. Let me know when the heart of Berlin gets anything near that. Also, the Free State of Anhalt was the first Weimar state to elect a local parliament with a Nazi leader. History sure does rhyme.

cyberpunk 18d ago

When no political party is willing to address the immigration issue that clearly is forefront on the minds of such AFD voters, what did you expect them to do? Vote CDU? Do we all think that another 8, 10 years of being "firewalled" out of national poltitics and being told they're all nazis (I'm sure some of them are, but nowhere near all) is going to make them less or more extreme? It's hard work making a society that caters to everyone, but the approach of ignoring and belittling a large group and ignoring their concerns entirely has a shelf life, and we aren't going to like the results. But hey, the boomers will all get their pensions and continue to vote CDU so that's all that matters.

DiogenesKynikos 18d ago
> being told they're all nazis (I'm sure some of them are, but nowhere near all) Many of their senior leaders are Nazis. The head of the party in the state of Thuringia used to write pro-Hitler articles under a pseudonym. > ignoring and belittling a large group and ignoring their concerns entirely The AfD doesn't address their problems either. It tells them that all of their problems are because of foreigners and immigrants. What's the AfD's solution for affordable housing? Deport immigrants to free up apartments. What's their solution for creating jobs? Deport immigrants. This is a party that wants to deport all German citizens who don't have a sufficient quantum of German blood. There's no need to pretend the party is anything other than what it is: a fascist party.
- martin_bech 18d ago
  Whats your solution to the immigration problem in Germany?
  - NikolaNovak 18d ago
    That's a trick question though, and it cunningly pre-supposes / takes-for-granted there IS an "immigration problem", and implicitly that "the immigration problem is the root cause of other problems" (as opposed to, "there are real problems, and some people would like you to think they're because of immigration").

SaturnIC 18d ago

[dead]

LarryDarrell 18d ago

When economic reforms are off the table, and austerity has run out of things to be austere about... yeah, anti-immigrant political parties are going to feast. Here in the US, there's a dumber revival of the Red Scare. The scare mongering isn't as effective this go round because there's no existing abundance for the people. All people want is affordable housing, jobs that let you plan for the future, and healthcare that won't bankrupt you. But there's no solution to any of those problems that don't involve some class of investors losing money/power. So we're stuck with MAGA. Incoherent ideology for incoherent times. When I look at the AfD, I see the same helpless thrashing taking hold.

martin_bech 18d ago
Its kind of the same as Maga, in the way that the people, and the politicians want very different things.. the people want a stop to crazy levels of immigration, and a stop to the EU deciding how they live their lives, and the politicians wants immigration, censorship and the EU to decide everything.. people voting Afd is primarily anti immigration and anti establishment.
lelanthran 18d ago
> All people want is affordable housing, jobs that let you plan for the future, and healthcare that won't bankrupt you. Right. I want to see the Democrats campaigning on those things. Midterm is near, they should be getting their We-Wont-Let-AI-Take-Your-Jobs campaign in motion. > But there's no solution to any of those problems that don't involve some class of investors losing money/power. So we're stuck with MAGA. You got MAGA because the Dems specifically went the diversity route, instead of at least pretending to address the concerns of the voters. This time round they've been handed an opportunity on a golden platter: Go anti-AI, at least enough so that people aren't worried about losing their jobs to AI. They will not see an opportunity like this for a long time, and if MAGA wins again, blame will lie squarely on Dems who decided that arguing about men in women's sport is a productive use of their voter goodwill.

antibull 18d ago

[dead]

786562354238 18d ago

[dead]

x3haloed 18d ago

I hate this timeline.

reeredfdfdf 18d ago

I'm worried of what European defense will look like if some day France, Germany and UK are all ruled by populist parties with historical ties / understanding attitude towards to Russia & skepticism towards NATO and EU. Not good for us here in Eastern frontier of EU. Traditional parties have failed badly in economic and migration policies, and Russia does its best to exploit this. They can't win on a battlefield against united Europe, but if small Eastern European countries are left without support, then Russia has much better odds against them.

cute_boi 18d ago
Liberal party is sacrificing everything just to create a vote bank. They know immigrants will always vote them as Right don't like immigrants.
- sajithdilshan 18d ago
  Irony is that the after naturalisation, the immigrant actually votes for the Right parities. That happened in US as well as in Germany
  - cute_boi 18d ago
    Depends on who is going to give freebies. These politicians are making people poor and giving freebies to win elections ...
    - sajithdilshan 18d ago
      If you think about it, it take years to naturalisation and also has to qualify for that. As an example in Germany you will not be qualified for naturalisation if you’re on social benefits. The immigrants that become naturalised are 99% of the cases hard working people that build their lives from scratch and want the prosperity for their families. That way they don’t need any freebies and just wants a functioning and growing economy where their children would have a better future
18d ago

adrlkh 18d ago

If they win the federal elections, this will be the biggest betrayal of voters ever. Musk will have a chat with Goldman Sachs, Goldman Sachs will have a chat with Weidel, then the following will happen: - The Ukraine war will continue to be supported for the benefit of Blackrock and to tie up Russia for the middle east plans of the US. - There will be a lot of noise about immigration. Some 1000 people will be deported for the headlines, but Weidel will obey the industry that uses immigration for union busting, driving down salaries and driving up rents. - Social services will be cut for everyone, including AfD voters. - Weidel will discover that she can use state TV and refrain from abolishing it. - Military spending will increase according to Hegseth's wishes. This is the biggest con in post-war German election history.

cute_boi 18d ago

I don't understand why we even give the right an opportunity to speak on immigration. Is it really that hard to allow only legal immigration and stop giving incentives to illegal immigrants? I understand that there may be around 5% of people who are genuinely trying to escape dictatorships, but if 95% are just gaming the system, it's going to look very bad.

balarjin 18d ago
> Is it really that hard to allow only legal immigration and stop giving incentives to illegal immigrants? Illegal immigrants are a source of cheap labor. Business interests tell politicians that without a pool of cheap workers, costs will go up, voters will feel inflation, and the politicians will get the blame. The overall cost is not low. Some illegal immigrants get benefits. Some illegal immigrants commit crimes. Almost all illegal immigrants will use the healthcare system eventually. But those costs are not seen by the businesses that push illegal immigration.
- hn_acker 18d ago
  > The overall cost is not low. Some illegal immigrants get benefits. > But those costs are not seen by the businesses that push illegal immigration. Do you have a source about the cost? As of 2023, noncitizen immigrants generally and illegal immigrants specifically were a net positive to fiscal burden [1]: > Illegal noncitizens were only somewhat less fiscally positive per capita than noncitizens generally, and they likely reduced the deficit by at least $1.7 trillion from 1994 to 2023. Illegal immigrants of all educational attainments are also likely to have paid more in taxes than they received in government benefits. Although we adopt simple assumptions, it is difficult to arrive at a conclusion significantly different from the one below. Even if illegal immigrants used benefits at the exact same rate as all noncitizens, they would still be, on average, fiscally beneficial to the United States—both by reducing the debt in real terms and by lowering debt-to-GDP. > Almost all illegal immigrants will use the healthcare system eventually. If by almost all you mean that most illegal immigrants get pathways to permanent residence/citizenship (unclear to me whether that's true), it's not very relevant unless you propose that after becoming legal residents illegal immigrants burden the economy/budget more than always-legal residents do. Otherwise, I would wonder whether the national birth rate issue [2] is as urgent as I've heard. [1] https://www.cato.org/white-paper/immigrants-recent-effects-government-budgets-1994-2023#why-illegal-immigrants-were-fiscally-positive https://www.cato.org/white-paper/immigrants-recent-effects-g... [2] https://phys.org/news/2026-06-birth-declining-world.html https://phys.org/news/2026-06-birth-declining-world.html

giraffe_lady 18d ago

The far right's win on hacker news goes mostly without comment, however. Very uh, interesting views you guys got in here.

archagon 18d ago
Seconded. I guess it makes sense with tech leaders like Musk and DHH making white supremacy fun and cool again. But the internet always remembers, and will continue to remember when these things are not fun and cool anymore.

pbasista 18d ago

I assume that these populist, extremist or dictator-willing-to-be politicians, not only in Germany but also in other European countries, in Russia, in the US, in Canada, as well as in China and elsewhere, are now all spending countless AI tokens to perfect their psychological manipulation and brainwashing techniques. So that they can secure more and more fanatic followers who will vote for them no matter what. And so that they can remain in power for as long as possible. To them, the "illegal immigration issue" is just a vehicle to gain power. Nothing more. Because, from what I can see, their only and actual goal is to get in power. No matter the cost. Then abuse it to the benefit of them and their friends. And never ever give it up ever again.

rdm_blackhole 18d ago
> to them, the "illegal immigration issue" is just a vehicle to gain power. Nothing more. If what you said made any sense whatsoever, then the parties currently in charge would have stopped it along time ago. Because if according to you that makes the far-right parties grow stronger, then why would anyone in their right mind not do anything about it? Why wait for these parties to use this issue to fuel their growth?
- Timon3 18d ago
  The CDU has been trying to adopt more AfD positions and talking points, in the hopes of getting their votes. Meanwhile this keeps only strengthening the AfD, but the CDU would rather see the fascists in power than govern with anyone left of center.
  - pbasista 18d ago
    > CDU has been trying to adopt more AfD positions > this keeps only strengthening the AfD I am unfamiliar with the details of German politics but if what you say is true, I am not surprised at all. I do not think that one can "win" against those parties by using their methods or adopting their positions. Because they are genuine at it. While the others would only fake it. If the voters have a choice between a fake populist and a genuine populist, they would, in my opinion, naturally pick the genuine one. I think that one of the reasons is that the "fakeness" is not very appealing to anyone. So they prefer the "real deal".

sajithdilshan 18d ago

There was a lot of hope when the current German government was elected. The current chancellor did his campaign saying the leftist-green ideological politics would be over and he is going to drastically reduce the government spending and cut bureaucracy and lift up the economy. People believed him and majority voted for a center right government. However, as soon as he came to power, he broke the promise of fiscal discipline and cutting spending and the first thing he did was passed a bill to burrow more than half a trillion Euros under the votes of old parliament even changing the constitution. Also because of the firewall they have imposed to AfD, for him the only coalition partner was SPD( which is more of a left leaning party) and they formed a government and since then it has been internal conflicts to pass the important legislations to get the country back on track. All these has worked as a boost for the AfD because people realised that apart from AfD the only other main right conservative party in Germany is CDU/CSU (which is the party of the chancellor) and voting for them hasn’t resulted in the change they voted in last election and now, they don’t have any other choice than voting for AfD because voting for the same old parties expecting a different result would be the definition of insanity.

cyberpunk 18d ago
The OECD calculates Germany's 2025 tax wedge at 49.3%. That's the second highest behind belgium. So we get to work for the state about half the time (including VAT etc), and on-top of it thanks to the Merz masterstroke we're getting an additional 800bn debt between now-2030. Meanwhile, everything seems to be getting worse. We need significant reductions in spending, and I don't think anyone has any clue how to achieve it before the house of cards falls down completely.
- sajithdilshan 18d ago
  Soon the Germany would be stuck between a rock and a hard place when it comes to fiscal responsibility. They cannot depreciate the currency because Euro is controlled by Brussels and to pay the interest on debt, they would have to borrow even more and the vicious cycle would continue till they are back in Weimar Republic 2.0
- 18d ago

general1465 18d ago

As a European, I am not worried at all. AfD promises are a complete nonsense which will make everything in Germany worse (Leaving Euro, EU) or require cooperation of other countries (Deportations) so they will either not even try or try and fail. Then after 4-5 years of barking achieve nothing and will get voted out.

jq-r 18d ago
You’ve projected the best outcome, but there are worse outcomes than that. They can proclaim it’s a major crisis and suspend elections indefinitely. Wars follow and those frigging suck to put it nicely.

mizzao 18d ago

I've found this book to be particularly instructive in understanding how policies across the world ended up neglecting citizens and pushing them to the far right, from Trump to AfD and everything in between. It's made it clearer that these are common symptoms that arise from systemic problems, not one-off idiosyncrasies. After the Fall: From the End of History to the Crisis of Democracy, How Politicians Broke Our World https://shapiro.macmillan.yale.edu/publications/books/after-fall https://shapiro.macmillan.yale.edu/publications/books/after-...