5 ms·

Replaceable but Employed: Automation and the Meaning of Work

68 points by mooreds 1mo ago

pgt 1mo ago
Does anybody have a link where I don't need to download a PDF and zoom and it's still messed up for reading? I just want HTML, mannn.
- gruez 1mo ago
  >a PDF and zoom and it's still messed up for reading Works fine on my machine. Maybe don't view from a phone, I guess?
  - sevenzero 1mo ago
    Most people nowadays use phones. Mobile first isnt exactly a new concept either...
    - gruez 1mo ago
      >Mobile first isnt exactly a new concept either... It's not a landing page for some SaaS, it's a manuscript for some academic publication. "Mobile first" is definitely not top of mind.
      - sevenzero 1mo ago
        Yea maybe adapt to what screens people use nowadays?
    - selcuka 1mo ago
      PDFs are not optimised for mobile screens. Adobe Acrobat Reader on mobile can reflow text (liquid mode) and fit phone screens without manual zooming.
jdw64 1mo ago
>Automation can, therefore, reduce the value of work before it eliminates jobs. As automation takes over, the value of labor collapses, and workers' market bargaining power under capitalism is the first to crumble. Ultimately, this drives up the value of real assets. I agree that tech companies can profit and gain the upper hand in negotiations simply by demonstrating a machine before licensing it, as this alone diminishes the value of workers. I am seriously worried these days.
- atomicnumber3 1mo ago
  But what's the point of real assets if you can't do anything with them? No point in holding real estate if nobody can afford to rent/buy your houses or go do whatever money-spending thing you put on your commercial lots.
  - ArcHound 1mo ago
    That sounds like a Q4 problem.
  - jdw64 1mo ago
    The tenants might change in the future. Right now they are individuals, but perhaps properties will be leased to build power grids or autonomous logistics warehouses. Also, if techno-feudalism accelerates and public purchasing power collapses, leading to the introduction of UBI, I think most of that money will just end up going toward essential housing costs anyway. In fact, if you look at recent trends in real estate, commercial properties are where the big money is being made, aren't they?
    - mcmcmc 1mo ago
      > Also, if techno-feudalism accelerates and public purchasing power collapses, leading to the introduction of UBI This always makes me laugh. What motivation would the oligarchs have to pay out UBI? If they can automate the labor who needs more mouths to feed? They’ll push undesirables into ghettos and start a slow genocide of starvation and disease.
pydry 1mo ago
This paper created some neat theoretical mathematical models but I can't see anything that indicates that they have anything to do with reality. I thought they'd come up with a neat mechanism that looked at actual wages in real companies where automation was introduced, but no. It's all spherical cows.
- mitxela 1mo ago
  Isn't that how most economics works? All spherical cows that conveniently prove whatever is good for your boss's boss's boss's boss's wallet, and you get paid handsomely.
  - pydry 1mo ago
    not all, but far too much of it. card/krueger is a good example of a study that tried to measure real cows in a smart way. the boss's wallet and plenty of economists who made their career off supporting it were very upset about that one and tried to deny it.

68 points by mooreds 1mo ago

pgt 1mo ago

Does anybody have a link where I don't need to download a PDF and zoom and it's still messed up for reading? I just want HTML, mannn.

gruez 1mo ago
>a PDF and zoom and it's still messed up for reading Works fine on my machine. Maybe don't view from a phone, I guess?
- sevenzero 1mo ago
  Most people nowadays use phones. Mobile first isnt exactly a new concept either...
  - gruez 1mo ago
    >Mobile first isnt exactly a new concept either... It's not a landing page for some SaaS, it's a manuscript for some academic publication. "Mobile first" is definitely not top of mind.
    - sevenzero 1mo ago
      Yea maybe adapt to what screens people use nowadays?
  - selcuka 1mo ago
    PDFs are not optimised for mobile screens. Adobe Acrobat Reader on mobile can reflow text (liquid mode) and fit phone screens without manual zooming.

jdw64 1mo ago

>Automation can, therefore, reduce the value of work before it eliminates jobs. As automation takes over, the value of labor collapses, and workers' market bargaining power under capitalism is the first to crumble. Ultimately, this drives up the value of real assets. I agree that tech companies can profit and gain the upper hand in negotiations simply by demonstrating a machine before licensing it, as this alone diminishes the value of workers. I am seriously worried these days.

atomicnumber3 1mo ago
But what's the point of real assets if you can't do anything with them? No point in holding real estate if nobody can afford to rent/buy your houses or go do whatever money-spending thing you put on your commercial lots.
- ArcHound 1mo ago
  That sounds like a Q4 problem.
- jdw64 1mo ago
  The tenants might change in the future. Right now they are individuals, but perhaps properties will be leased to build power grids or autonomous logistics warehouses. Also, if techno-feudalism accelerates and public purchasing power collapses, leading to the introduction of UBI, I think most of that money will just end up going toward essential housing costs anyway. In fact, if you look at recent trends in real estate, commercial properties are where the big money is being made, aren't they?
  - mcmcmc 1mo ago
    > Also, if techno-feudalism accelerates and public purchasing power collapses, leading to the introduction of UBI This always makes me laugh. What motivation would the oligarchs have to pay out UBI? If they can automate the labor who needs more mouths to feed? They’ll push undesirables into ghettos and start a slow genocide of starvation and disease.

pydry 1mo ago

This paper created some neat theoretical mathematical models but I can't see anything that indicates that they have anything to do with reality. I thought they'd come up with a neat mechanism that looked at actual wages in real companies where automation was introduced, but no. It's all spherical cows.

mitxela 1mo ago
Isn't that how most economics works? All spherical cows that conveniently prove whatever is good for your boss's boss's boss's boss's wallet, and you get paid handsomely.
- pydry 1mo ago
  not all, but far too much of it. card/krueger is a good example of a study that tried to measure real cows in a smart way. the boss's wallet and plenty of economists who made their career off supporting it were very upset about that one and tried to deny it.