4 ms·

If you don't want to be responsible for it, another way is to just publish it anonymously: make a GitHub that isn't attached to your real name etc, perhaps usin

If you don't want to be responsible for it, another way is to just publish it anonymously: make a GitHub that isn't attached to your real name etc, perhaps using a one-off disposable email address, and put it there. Then you don't have to think about what the lawyers think. Worst case it'll get taken down, but by that point it'll likely be popular enough that there'll be plenty of copies. [Pirate flag emoji here]

saturn8601 26d ago
What if the companies start auto subpoenaing the AI companies to try and tie the code to an account?
- pimeys 26d ago
  Maybe then using an open weights model is a good way to hide your tracks...
  - eru 26d ago
    Or at least use an obscurer model from an obscure company, so they don't know who to subpoena.
    - fc417fc802 26d ago
      Everyone is aware that multiple services offer zero data retention, right?
- asdfsa32 26d ago
  Let them do it. It will end up really well. I know the system has been protecting these companies, but that has been an economic concern as much as other motives. Now that AI is the crown jewel of economy and global dominance, let the entertainment industry have a go at it. Let them.
  - MarkusQ 26d ago
    Wait until we all get popcorn though, and find a comfy place to watch from that's just outside the splash zone.
- lodovic 26d ago
  Do companies in the US really have the right to do that? I would think that kind of investigation is reserved for law enforcement only. If the design was made over email, would the piano company be able to subpoena Google for someone's private gmail messages?
  - junon 26d ago
    Attorneys can subpoena if the court approves, as part of ongoing litigation, AFAIU (IANAL).
  - radicalcentrist 26d ago
    Consider previous cases where companies like Reddit have unmasked their users at the behest of court order.
  - embedding-shape 26d ago
    > Do companies in the US really have the right to do that? Does it matter? What's important is if it can happen or not, and how if so. We already know that MPAA is willing to basically do whatever, even contribute themselves to piracy, if it means they can put people in jail for copying stuff eventually. They themselves also gotten in trouble for copyright violations themselves in the past, so doesn't seem like they're hiding away from breaking a little bit of laws to hunt pirates.
Tepix 26d ago
Sure, on github it will (still) get the most attention, but perhaps another repository outside the US is a better fit. You could also create a text document instead of a software that details the mechanism used to fool other MIDI decoders and publish only that (for now). Finally, familiarize yourself with the Art. 6 Software Directive (2009/24/EC) / §69e UrhG — decompilation for interoperability. It may be your ticket for a legal status in Germany/EU.
embedding-shape 26d ago
> Worst case it'll get taken down, Eeh, worst case scenario you'll get sued as Microsoft will have no problem with handing over everything they have from your Windows installation information, GitHub accounts, NPM authentication and everything else they own today if the courts tell them to. You can't just commit crimes on the open internet without really hiding IPs and what not, and expect that to not come back to haunt you eventually. Kind of poor form to suggest otherwise too.
- lukan 26d ago
  "You can't just commit crimes on the open internet " Who said it is a crime, are you a lawyer?
  - embedding-shape 26d ago
    Allegedly commit potential crimes* I'm not saying yay/nay if this is a crime or not, but if you think it might be, and you create a new account on GitHub to "be anonymous", you're not taking opsec seriously enough for something you believe might be a crime. By the way, generally judges or juries would be the ones to decide if something was illegal or not, it's not the lawyers who decide this, in any country I'm familiar with.
  - fennecfoxy 26d ago
    Tbf "is it a crime" is hard for even a single lawyer to answer because it depends on: who you are, your skin colour, how rich you are, your sex, whether it's a white collar crime or not, did you commit the crime on behalf of a corpo, etc. But we like to pretend that the justice system delivers justice evenhandedly I suppose.
    - supernikita 26d ago
      No it does not. The law defines what a crime is. That you are bummed out about how it is applied, does not change the question, whether it is a crime. One thing is the definition of what constitutes a crime/felony/misdemeanor, another thing is the application and the punishment meted out.
wombatpm 26d ago
Why bother publishing the code? Anyone with LLM access can recreate it. Instead write up your findings on how it works. Publish that in a blog, submit it to Wikipedia and Reddit. Player piano did security through obscurity. Now make it less obscure.
- p91paul 26d ago
  code with compilation instructions can be understood and used by much more people than a long conversation between a human and 2 top tier LLM only accessible through costly agreements and providing nondeterministic output. Going from a prompt to working code you have to traverse a pretty steep paywall...(yes 20 to 200 dollars per month is steep if you compare it with the rest of the software stack like compilers/interpreters and text editors, which is usually free)

saturn8601 26d ago

What if the companies start auto subpoenaing the AI companies to try and tie the code to an account?

pimeys 26d ago
Maybe then using an open weights model is a good way to hide your tracks...
- eru 26d ago
  Or at least use an obscurer model from an obscure company, so they don't know who to subpoena.
  - fc417fc802 26d ago
    Everyone is aware that multiple services offer zero data retention, right?
asdfsa32 26d ago
Let them do it. It will end up really well. I know the system has been protecting these companies, but that has been an economic concern as much as other motives. Now that AI is the crown jewel of economy and global dominance, let the entertainment industry have a go at it. Let them.
- MarkusQ 26d ago
  Wait until we all get popcorn though, and find a comfy place to watch from that's just outside the splash zone.
lodovic 26d ago
Do companies in the US really have the right to do that? I would think that kind of investigation is reserved for law enforcement only. If the design was made over email, would the piano company be able to subpoena Google for someone's private gmail messages?
- junon 26d ago
  Attorneys can subpoena if the court approves, as part of ongoing litigation, AFAIU (IANAL).
- radicalcentrist 26d ago
  Consider previous cases where companies like Reddit have unmasked their users at the behest of court order.
- embedding-shape 26d ago
  > Do companies in the US really have the right to do that? Does it matter? What's important is if it can happen or not, and how if so. We already know that MPAA is willing to basically do whatever, even contribute themselves to piracy, if it means they can put people in jail for copying stuff eventually. They themselves also gotten in trouble for copyright violations themselves in the past, so doesn't seem like they're hiding away from breaking a little bit of laws to hunt pirates.

Tepix 26d ago

Sure, on github it will (still) get the most attention, but perhaps another repository outside the US is a better fit. You could also create a text document instead of a software that details the mechanism used to fool other MIDI decoders and publish only that (for now). Finally, familiarize yourself with the Art. 6 Software Directive (2009/24/EC) / §69e UrhG — decompilation for interoperability. It may be your ticket for a legal status in Germany/EU.

embedding-shape 26d ago

> Worst case it'll get taken down, Eeh, worst case scenario you'll get sued as Microsoft will have no problem with handing over everything they have from your Windows installation information, GitHub accounts, NPM authentication and everything else they own today if the courts tell them to. You can't just commit crimes on the open internet without really hiding IPs and what not, and expect that to not come back to haunt you eventually. Kind of poor form to suggest otherwise too.

lukan 26d ago
"You can't just commit crimes on the open internet " Who said it is a crime, are you a lawyer?
- embedding-shape 26d ago
  Allegedly commit potential crimes* I'm not saying yay/nay if this is a crime or not, but if you think it might be, and you create a new account on GitHub to "be anonymous", you're not taking opsec seriously enough for something you believe might be a crime. By the way, generally judges or juries would be the ones to decide if something was illegal or not, it's not the lawyers who decide this, in any country I'm familiar with.
- fennecfoxy 26d ago
  Tbf "is it a crime" is hard for even a single lawyer to answer because it depends on: who you are, your skin colour, how rich you are, your sex, whether it's a white collar crime or not, did you commit the crime on behalf of a corpo, etc. But we like to pretend that the justice system delivers justice evenhandedly I suppose.
  - supernikita 26d ago
    No it does not. The law defines what a crime is. That you are bummed out about how it is applied, does not change the question, whether it is a crime. One thing is the definition of what constitutes a crime/felony/misdemeanor, another thing is the application and the punishment meted out.

wombatpm 26d ago

Why bother publishing the code? Anyone with LLM access can recreate it. Instead write up your findings on how it works. Publish that in a blog, submit it to Wikipedia and Reddit. Player piano did security through obscurity. Now make it less obscure.

p91paul 26d ago
code with compilation instructions can be understood and used by much more people than a long conversation between a human and 2 top tier LLM only accessible through costly agreements and providing nondeterministic output. Going from a prompt to working code you have to traverse a pretty steep paywall...(yes 20 to 200 dollars per month is steep if you compare it with the rest of the software stack like compilers/interpreters and text editors, which is usually free)