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Unused RAM is wasted RAM. And swap usage is not an issue either unless there's a lot of swap in/out happening.

by floro 28d ago

fishgoesblub 28d ago
> Unused RAM is wasted RAM A terrible phrase constantly used in defense of bloated, wasteful programs using gobs of memory to achieve nothing.
- nothercastle 28d ago
  It’s true unused it wasted but unfortunately what it’s used for is decided by corporate flavor of the month so garbage one drive, teams and Gemini builds eat all the ram that would be better used by other applications people actually like
- mc32 28d ago
  Indeed. They can’t know what other applications you need to run. So they more frugal the OS and application, the more available for other software apps.
- deleted 28d ago
  [deleted]
- wolpoli 28d ago
  I was quite surprised that this phrase, which papers over nuances in how operating systems classify and manage memory, was posted by someone who studied CS.
- floro 27d ago
  Please educate yourself how this is false https://www.linuxatemyram.com/ https://www.linuxatemyram.com/
bena 28d ago
If I’m encoding video or running a database, sure. But the OS should be as lean as possible because the entire reason is to run other programs.
- PorciiVorbesc 28d ago
  The windows kernel is smart enough to free RAM for the highest demanding app like rendering or video editing, even if the idle is high. That's why there's no accurate 1:1 comparison between operating systems. Windows, MacOS, and LInux will treat physical memory very differently bot at idle, and during heavy use. Sure, Win 11 has a lot of bloat and poorly coded Web apps that should be removed or rewritten in native, but the kernel is still top notch at managing even limited memory and handling OOM cases.
  - skydhash 28d ago
    The thing with windows is that there is no idle state, something is always busy with the CPU/hogging ram. With Linux I can have like 98% idle and the system taking 2Gb out of my 8gb of ram, but with windows, the system is more like 30% cpu and more than 4GB of currently being used ram.
    - PorciiVorbesc 28d ago
      If idle on Win 11 already pre-caches most-used apps like Chrome/FF and not on Linux, how can you accurately measure what true idle is? You have to remember the Win (and MacOS) kernel is tuned to consumer desktop user use cases, while Linux kernel is tuned to server/DC use-cases. That's why ~15 years ago when I was in uni, you'd get audio stutter when playing music/movies of spinning rust on linux while torrenting file on the same HDD, and not on Windows/MacOS, due to different queuing algorithms used thet prioritised audio decoding tasks over everything else, which Linux kernel out of the box didn't, unless you tinkered and changed it.
      - skydhash 28d ago
        > You have to remember the Win (and MacOS) kernel is tuned to consumer desktop user use cases, while Linux kernel is tuned to server/DC use-cases. I don’t mind the kernel doing kernel things. The issue is system services and other software that are either unnecessary or badly coded. You can’t disable them because of “reasons” and they’re just wasting your time and your electricity.
Dylan16807 28d ago
> Unused RAM is wasted RAM This applies to caches, and it applies to time versus memory tradeoffs in expensive algorithms. Win11 wastes a lot of memory on neither.
asdff 28d ago
Until you open something else
- floro 27d ago
  The whole point is to cache frequently used things in RAM so when you open this other thing it loads faster
theandrewbailey 28d ago
These days, swapping to disk means your SSD wears out and dies faster. That's very much an issue.
cute_boi 28d ago
Or one can simply optimize the memory?
- floro 27d ago
  https://www.linuxatemyram.com/ https://www.linuxatemyram.com/ Please educate yourself on how this is exactly how you optimise RAM usage
  - cute_boi 26d ago
    Over-allocating something you never use just to store it on disk to improve performance is like using the MacroSlop strategy of preloading Excel, lol. I’ve probably written more kernels, fuzzers, and low-level drivers than anyone on Hacker News, so please don’t tell me this strategy is helping these days. This just give excuse to developer to not optimize their app because it just works.
    - floro 26d ago
      You clearly didn't bother to read the website I linked... Please educate yourself.

Unused RAM is wasted RAM. And swap usage is not an issue either unless there's a lot of swap in/out happening.

by floro 28d ago

Unused RAM is wasted RAM. And swap usage is not an issue either unless there's a lot of swap in/out happening.

> Unused RAM is wasted RAM A terrible phrase constantly used in defense of bloated, wasteful programs using gobs of memory to achieve nothing.

nothercastle 28d ago
It’s true unused it wasted but unfortunately what it’s used for is decided by corporate flavor of the month so garbage one drive, teams and Gemini builds eat all the ram that would be better used by other applications people actually like
mc32 28d ago
Indeed. They can’t know what other applications you need to run. So they more frugal the OS and application, the more available for other software apps.
deleted 28d ago
[deleted]
wolpoli 28d ago
I was quite surprised that this phrase, which papers over nuances in how operating systems classify and manage memory, was posted by someone who studied CS.
floro 27d ago
Please educate yourself how this is false https://www.linuxatemyram.com/ https://www.linuxatemyram.com/

bena 28d ago

If I’m encoding video or running a database, sure. But the OS should be as lean as possible because the entire reason is to run other programs.

PorciiVorbesc 28d ago
The windows kernel is smart enough to free RAM for the highest demanding app like rendering or video editing, even if the idle is high. That's why there's no accurate 1:1 comparison between operating systems. Windows, MacOS, and LInux will treat physical memory very differently bot at idle, and during heavy use. Sure, Win 11 has a lot of bloat and poorly coded Web apps that should be removed or rewritten in native, but the kernel is still top notch at managing even limited memory and handling OOM cases.
- skydhash 28d ago
  The thing with windows is that there is no idle state, something is always busy with the CPU/hogging ram. With Linux I can have like 98% idle and the system taking 2Gb out of my 8gb of ram, but with windows, the system is more like 30% cpu and more than 4GB of currently being used ram.
  - PorciiVorbesc 28d ago
    If idle on Win 11 already pre-caches most-used apps like Chrome/FF and not on Linux, how can you accurately measure what true idle is? You have to remember the Win (and MacOS) kernel is tuned to consumer desktop user use cases, while Linux kernel is tuned to server/DC use-cases. That's why ~15 years ago when I was in uni, you'd get audio stutter when playing music/movies of spinning rust on linux while torrenting file on the same HDD, and not on Windows/MacOS, due to different queuing algorithms used thet prioritised audio decoding tasks over everything else, which Linux kernel out of the box didn't, unless you tinkered and changed it.
    - skydhash 28d ago
      > You have to remember the Win (and MacOS) kernel is tuned to consumer desktop user use cases, while Linux kernel is tuned to server/DC use-cases. I don’t mind the kernel doing kernel things. The issue is system services and other software that are either unnecessary or badly coded. You can’t disable them because of “reasons” and they’re just wasting your time and your electricity.

Dylan16807 28d ago

> Unused RAM is wasted RAM This applies to caches, and it applies to time versus memory tradeoffs in expensive algorithms. Win11 wastes a lot of memory on neither.

asdff 28d ago

Until you open something else

floro 27d ago
The whole point is to cache frequently used things in RAM so when you open this other thing it loads faster

theandrewbailey 28d ago

These days, swapping to disk means your SSD wears out and dies faster. That's very much an issue.

cute_boi 28d ago

Or one can simply optimize the memory?

floro 27d ago
https://www.linuxatemyram.com/ https://www.linuxatemyram.com/ Please educate yourself on how this is exactly how you optimise RAM usage
- cute_boi 26d ago
  Over-allocating something you never use just to store it on disk to improve performance is like using the MacroSlop strategy of preloading Excel, lol. I’ve probably written more kernels, fuzzers, and low-level drivers than anyone on Hacker News, so please don’t tell me this strategy is helping these days. This just give excuse to developer to not optimize their app because it just works.
  - floro 26d ago
    You clearly didn't bother to read the website I linked... Please educate yourself.