4 ms·

Then you live next to them and let them borrow a cup of sugar or ask to borrow one from them and collect their mail while they’re away and thank them when they

Then you live next to them and let them borrow a cup of sugar or ask to borrow one from them and collect their mail while they’re away and thank them when they let you know you left a light on when you left for work the other day. And realize that your hangups, quirks, and beliefs are just as offensive to them as theirs are to yours but that doesn’t mean either one of you is. Or a good neighbor that can’t crack a beer and just live next door to one another.

hackyhacky 1mo ago
> Then you live next to them and let them borrow a cup of sugar or ask to borrow one from them and collect their mail while they’re away and thank them when they let you know you left a light on when you left for work the other day. You would have liked my grandmother, who shared your opinion that kindness between neighbors can heal political rifts. Unfortunately it didn't work out so well for her, as despite her kindness, the neighbors sent her to Dachau anyway.
- jonhohle 1mo ago
  Once again with the implication that conservatives are equivalent to Nazis and therefore should be treated with vitriol. The hyperbole isn’t unwarranted and the whole point.
  - hackyhacky 1mo ago
    That's not the implication. Read it again, stop playing the victim. The point is simply that hate is not rational, and that your proposal of kindness does nothing to assuage the rampant ignorance and xenophobia that animates evil ideology. Would you prefer a Communist rather than Nazi parable? Either way works.
    - TimTheTinker 1mo ago
      > evil ideology Does exist and should be labeled as such. But it's also always been a term that evil political movements use to label those who oppose their ideas. Let the wise be discerning. Not all is as it appears on the surface or is reported to be.
      - hackyhacky 1mo ago
        > Not all is as it appears on the surface or is reported to be. Are you literally asking for a moral re-evaluaion of fascism?
        TimTheTinker 1mo ago
        Heck no. Hitler and Mussolini were deeply evil and their ideology was too. But there's nothing like them happening today.
        hackyhacky 1mo ago
        > But there's nothing like them happening today. <rolls eyes> https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-president-and-constitutional-violations-will-the-federal-courts-contain-the-presidents-power-grabs/ https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-president-and-c...
        deleted 1mo ago
        [deleted]
      - api 1mo ago
        I think we can judge fascism by its fruit. Authoritarian Communism and its variants mostly fail by the same standard: lots of misery and death. A good principle here I think is “a thing is what it does.” It effectively banishes all the sophistry that these kinds of ideologies deploy in their defense. No, a thing is what it does, and these ideologies murder and impoverish. I find it really disheartening that so many people today seem to want to revisit one of these two ideologies. These are the failed death cults of the early 20th century. They should be forgotten. If what we have is not working we need new ideas, not these.
        hackyhacky 1mo ago
        Bit of a false equivalence there. The modern right wants to replace democratic rule of law with enlightened despotism focused on eliminating perceived racial, sexual, and ideological impurities. The modern left wants universal healthcare and high taxes for billionaires, similar to the well-known death cult of Norway. /s These things are not the same.
    - jonhohle 1mo ago
      Your grandmother sounds incredible, and her story tragic. I read your earlier comment a slight towards her. Perhaps that’s not what you meant. Since OP was adding a counter argument to the article that some people shouldn’t be trusted, your comment seemed to reinforce the point that differing ideologies inferring that current preferences could result in similar outcomes. In another comment you equated that same group with Jim Crow. I find the hyperbole counterproductive, immature, and annoying. It seems like you don’t know any conservatives very well, the ones you do know are the scum of the earth. Either way, way, I find your Grandmother’s story noble, inspiring. It represents the best of humanity when faced with the worst. I’d want to be known for that a million times before being known for being the angry neighbor that knew he was more virtuous than everyone else.
      - hackyhacky 1mo ago
        > I find the hyperbole counterproductive, immature, and annoying. I'm sorry you find it annoying, but I don't find the comparison hyperbolic at all, and perhaps if you understand the historical context and the facts on the ground, you wouldn't either. You are letting your feelings (in this case, being annoyed, combined with a cult of personality) get in the way of a sober analysis of the situation, which is unambiguously the decay of the rule of the law and the persecution of morally innocent people. > It seems like you don’t know any conservatives very well, the ones you do know are the scum of the earth. I agree with the second part. I live in a red state. I see these people every day. People just as bigoted and short-sighted as you. People who are utterly convinced of their correctness, even as they reveal their complete ignorance of and indifference to what is actually happening. Instead, what I hear again and again is blind trust for the billionaire in power based solely on his rhetorical style. > Either way, way, I find your Grandmother’s story noble, inspiring. It's not noble to be a victim. I hope that those persecuted in today's America won't be as naive as my grandmother. > being the angry neighbor that knew he was more virtuous than everyone else. This perfectly describes my actual neighbor, who regularly blames poor immigrants for all his self-inflicted ills and demands violent retribution against the gays, the liberals, the trans, the foreigners, and brown people, all while claiming to speak in the virtuous name of Jesus Christ.
- machomaster 1mo ago
  Was it really her neighbors that sent her there or a police/military? I very much doubt that. But let's play the hypothetical. - Would your grandmother's fate be better if instead of kindness she would be spewing vitriol? Don't think so, the situation would have been even worse, much faster. - What about the other side of the coin - about all of those people, who survived, because they were nice and friendly? - In general, always having the same strategy, no matter what is happening around you, is dumb. When the environment changes, so should the behavior. Kindness often helps, but not against wild animals like bears, nature forces like tornadoes, and the faceless state bureucracy.
  - hackyhacky 1mo ago
    > Would your grandmother's fate be better if instead of kindness she would be spewing vitriol? "Spewing vitriol" is loaded language used to smear people you disagree with. The fact is that during the Nazi regime, some people did speak out against the atrocities, and some people did fight back. More people should have. Those who did resist would certainly have been described as "spewing vitriol" by those in power. I wish my grandmother was that brave. > What about the other side of the coin - about all of those people, who survived, because they were nice and friendly? Some things are more important than surviving.
santoshalper 1mo ago
This is just sentimental nonsense. You are not obligated to patronize or be friendly to evil people.
- jonhohle 1mo ago
  > evil people Your conservative neighbor is no more evil than someone who thinks their conservative neighbor is evil because they are conservative.
  - hackyhacky 1mo ago
    You said: > Your conservative neighbor is no more evil than someone who thinks their conservative neighbor is evil because they are conservative. In response this: > This is just sentimental nonsense. You are not obligated to patronize or be friendly to evil people. Why do you assume that "evil" == "conservative" here?
    - jonhohle 1mo ago
      Inferred based on OP and other comments from parent. Works the same way reverse.
      - hackyhacky 1mo ago
        Incorrect inference. You're so eager to achieve victim status that you've totally missed the point.
knodi123 1mo ago
I don't want to sound hyperbolic, but what if you were a jew, and you applied that reasoning to your hitler-loving neighbors back in nazi germany? Modern politics is fundamentally different from the way things used to be. The right-wing political parties in america today have almost nothing at their core besides hatred for marginalized communities. Demonizing trans people, immigrants, muslims, "communists"- that's it. Everything else is just the whims of an impulsive imbecile - the tariffs, the war with Iran, kidnapping the president of Venezuela, the belligerence towards _greenland_ (?!?!?), etc... And the purpose behind demonizing them it to energize a shrinking demographic base to compensate for how many reasonable people they've driven away. So at this point, the ones who remain under the maga umbrella have been exposed to so much vitriolic propaganda that they are just at a fever pitch of hatred at all times. I've seen it countless times in my own life- People who used to say that Obama was naive and inexperienced and that his policies were misguided, but who now say he's a muslim jihadi who wanted to destroy america. And so on with many other political issues. I have several close relatives who used to be like bob, or van- but MAGA has changed them. They are just completely dripping with hate, now. And if I was a member of one of the communities they've been frothed up against, I don't know if I'd feel safe trying to engage with them like the person on the OP.

hackyhacky 1mo ago

> Then you live next to them and let them borrow a cup of sugar or ask to borrow one from them and collect their mail while they’re away and thank them when they let you know you left a light on when you left for work the other day. You would have liked my grandmother, who shared your opinion that kindness between neighbors can heal political rifts. Unfortunately it didn't work out so well for her, as despite her kindness, the neighbors sent her to Dachau anyway.

jonhohle 1mo ago
Once again with the implication that conservatives are equivalent to Nazis and therefore should be treated with vitriol. The hyperbole isn’t unwarranted and the whole point.
- hackyhacky 1mo ago
  That's not the implication. Read it again, stop playing the victim. The point is simply that hate is not rational, and that your proposal of kindness does nothing to assuage the rampant ignorance and xenophobia that animates evil ideology. Would you prefer a Communist rather than Nazi parable? Either way works.
  - TimTheTinker 1mo ago
    > evil ideology Does exist and should be labeled as such. But it's also always been a term that evil political movements use to label those who oppose their ideas. Let the wise be discerning. Not all is as it appears on the surface or is reported to be.
    - hackyhacky 1mo ago
      > Not all is as it appears on the surface or is reported to be. Are you literally asking for a moral re-evaluaion of fascism?
      - TimTheTinker 1mo ago
        Heck no. Hitler and Mussolini were deeply evil and their ideology was too. But there's nothing like them happening today.
        hackyhacky 1mo ago
        > But there's nothing like them happening today. <rolls eyes> https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-president-and-constitutional-violations-will-the-federal-courts-contain-the-presidents-power-grabs/ https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-president-and-c...
        deleted 1mo ago
        [deleted]
    - api 1mo ago
      I think we can judge fascism by its fruit. Authoritarian Communism and its variants mostly fail by the same standard: lots of misery and death. A good principle here I think is “a thing is what it does.” It effectively banishes all the sophistry that these kinds of ideologies deploy in their defense. No, a thing is what it does, and these ideologies murder and impoverish. I find it really disheartening that so many people today seem to want to revisit one of these two ideologies. These are the failed death cults of the early 20th century. They should be forgotten. If what we have is not working we need new ideas, not these.
      - hackyhacky 1mo ago
        Bit of a false equivalence there. The modern right wants to replace democratic rule of law with enlightened despotism focused on eliminating perceived racial, sexual, and ideological impurities. The modern left wants universal healthcare and high taxes for billionaires, similar to the well-known death cult of Norway. /s These things are not the same.
  - jonhohle 1mo ago
    Your grandmother sounds incredible, and her story tragic. I read your earlier comment a slight towards her. Perhaps that’s not what you meant. Since OP was adding a counter argument to the article that some people shouldn’t be trusted, your comment seemed to reinforce the point that differing ideologies inferring that current preferences could result in similar outcomes. In another comment you equated that same group with Jim Crow. I find the hyperbole counterproductive, immature, and annoying. It seems like you don’t know any conservatives very well, the ones you do know are the scum of the earth. Either way, way, I find your Grandmother’s story noble, inspiring. It represents the best of humanity when faced with the worst. I’d want to be known for that a million times before being known for being the angry neighbor that knew he was more virtuous than everyone else.
    - hackyhacky 1mo ago
      > I find the hyperbole counterproductive, immature, and annoying. I'm sorry you find it annoying, but I don't find the comparison hyperbolic at all, and perhaps if you understand the historical context and the facts on the ground, you wouldn't either. You are letting your feelings (in this case, being annoyed, combined with a cult of personality) get in the way of a sober analysis of the situation, which is unambiguously the decay of the rule of the law and the persecution of morally innocent people. > It seems like you don’t know any conservatives very well, the ones you do know are the scum of the earth. I agree with the second part. I live in a red state. I see these people every day. People just as bigoted and short-sighted as you. People who are utterly convinced of their correctness, even as they reveal their complete ignorance of and indifference to what is actually happening. Instead, what I hear again and again is blind trust for the billionaire in power based solely on his rhetorical style. > Either way, way, I find your Grandmother’s story noble, inspiring. It's not noble to be a victim. I hope that those persecuted in today's America won't be as naive as my grandmother. > being the angry neighbor that knew he was more virtuous than everyone else. This perfectly describes my actual neighbor, who regularly blames poor immigrants for all his self-inflicted ills and demands violent retribution against the gays, the liberals, the trans, the foreigners, and brown people, all while claiming to speak in the virtuous name of Jesus Christ.
machomaster 1mo ago
Was it really her neighbors that sent her there or a police/military? I very much doubt that. But let's play the hypothetical. - Would your grandmother's fate be better if instead of kindness she would be spewing vitriol? Don't think so, the situation would have been even worse, much faster. - What about the other side of the coin - about all of those people, who survived, because they were nice and friendly? - In general, always having the same strategy, no matter what is happening around you, is dumb. When the environment changes, so should the behavior. Kindness often helps, but not against wild animals like bears, nature forces like tornadoes, and the faceless state bureucracy.
- hackyhacky 1mo ago
  > Would your grandmother's fate be better if instead of kindness she would be spewing vitriol? "Spewing vitriol" is loaded language used to smear people you disagree with. The fact is that during the Nazi regime, some people did speak out against the atrocities, and some people did fight back. More people should have. Those who did resist would certainly have been described as "spewing vitriol" by those in power. I wish my grandmother was that brave. > What about the other side of the coin - about all of those people, who survived, because they were nice and friendly? Some things are more important than surviving.

santoshalper 1mo ago

This is just sentimental nonsense. You are not obligated to patronize or be friendly to evil people.

jonhohle 1mo ago
> evil people Your conservative neighbor is no more evil than someone who thinks their conservative neighbor is evil because they are conservative.
- hackyhacky 1mo ago
  You said: > Your conservative neighbor is no more evil than someone who thinks their conservative neighbor is evil because they are conservative. In response this: > This is just sentimental nonsense. You are not obligated to patronize or be friendly to evil people. Why do you assume that "evil" == "conservative" here?
  - jonhohle 1mo ago
    Inferred based on OP and other comments from parent. Works the same way reverse.
    - hackyhacky 1mo ago
      Incorrect inference. You're so eager to achieve victim status that you've totally missed the point.

knodi123 1mo ago

I don't want to sound hyperbolic, but what if you were a jew, and you applied that reasoning to your hitler-loving neighbors back in nazi germany? Modern politics is fundamentally different from the way things used to be. The right-wing political parties in america today have almost nothing at their core besides hatred for marginalized communities. Demonizing trans people, immigrants, muslims, "communists"- that's it. Everything else is just the whims of an impulsive imbecile - the tariffs, the war with Iran, kidnapping the president of Venezuela, the belligerence towards _greenland_ (?!?!?), etc... And the purpose behind demonizing them it to energize a shrinking demographic base to compensate for how many reasonable people they've driven away. So at this point, the ones who remain under the maga umbrella have been exposed to so much vitriolic propaganda that they are just at a fever pitch of hatred at all times. I've seen it countless times in my own life- People who used to say that Obama was naive and inexperienced and that his policies were misguided, but who now say he's a muslim jihadi who wanted to destroy america. And so on with many other political issues. I have several close relatives who used to be like bob, or van- but MAGA has changed them. They are just completely dripping with hate, now. And if I was a member of one of the communities they've been frothed up against, I don't know if I'd feel safe trying to engage with them like the person on the OP.