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I'm anti-Trump. If you tell people "Trump is a corrupt asshole", that has a chance at convincing supporters to abandon him. If you tell people "the US needs a

I'm anti-Trump. If you tell people "Trump is a corrupt asshole", that has a chance at convincing supporters to abandon him. If you tell people "the US needs a cultural revolution due to events from past centuries", that's what got him elected in the first place. A good general wouldn't voluntarily shift the battleground to a region where their troops are weak. Political persuasion is no different. The Democratic Party keeps losing because they cling to unpopular positions on cultural issues. If Trump is as bad as you say, prove it to me by showing willingness to strategically cede ground on a few issues in order to win more voters.

otterley 1mo ago
I’m generally aligned with your point, but I also don’t think the official position of the Democratic Party is that we need a cultural revolution, nor do I observe most Democrats feel that way. What I do see is media and politicians on the Right characterizing extreme positions held by a minority of folks on the far Left as though they are adopted by the entire Left, and that weak uncritical minds on the Right believe that nonsense. Rush Limbaugh pioneered this technique to profit himself, and Trump gave him a fucking Presidential Medal of Freedom in his first term.
- 0xDEAFBEAD 1mo ago
  I think you're somewhat underestimating how effectively the far-left minority has scared others into silence. Anyways, I do what I can to push back against them when they say things which seem wacky to me, as in this instance. Maybe I should work harder to make my actual views clear. I added a few sentences to the end of my original comment in this thread: "I don't think this is a slavery thing. Trump just sucks." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49572347 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49572347
  - otterley 1mo ago
    > I think you're somewhat underestimating how effectively the far-left minority has scared others into silence Besides all the YouTube videos, X posts, the addition of two new right-wing TV networks (OANN and NEWSMAX), “Truth” Social, WSJ, NY Post, etc.? Silence is a myth perpetuated by the right (“people are trying to suppress the truth and your 1A rights!”) to build a following when in fact opposition voices are plentiful.
    - 0xDEAFBEAD 1mo ago
      I don't think people on the right are scared. I think too many center-left Democrats are scared.
      - otterley 1mo ago
        Of what?
        0xDEAFBEAD 1mo ago
        Censure and career threats by leftists.
  - tupaarnaq 1mo ago
    Scared others into silence with what magical powers? Zero control of both chambers, zero control of the executive, military, cable news, Supreme Court, law enforcement etc. With what is this mighty far left minority scaring people? Protest sit-ins on campuses? That's what makes you quake?
vkou 1mo ago
> because they cling to unpopular positions on cultural issues. The Republican propaganda machine will always be ready to make any cultural issue the dems hold 'unpopular'. They turn anything and everything into a culture war, and if nothing exists, they are more than happy to manufacture it. Observe how they turned their own vaccine into a cultural issue.
- 0xDEAFBEAD 1mo ago
  Many people, including me, not all of us Republicans, have observed that the Dems were much saner before 2010 or so.
  - otterley 1mo ago
    What happened around 2010 that might have precipitated whatever changes you’re thinking of?
    - 0xDEAFBEAD 1mo ago
      Tumblr? Cultural shifts from social media started to gather momentum roughly around that time.
      - otterley 1mo ago
        There was a lot for people to be angry about, particularly the quagmires in Iraq and Afghanistan that the Bush administration got us into as a knee-jerk reaction to 9/11, combined with the 2008 financial crisis and Wall Street public bailout that culminated in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street
        0xDEAFBEAD 1mo ago
        None of those events were the focus of the cultural shifts I'm referring to.
anon84873628 1mo ago
This whole thread started with: >We're still fighting the remnants of the confederacy. Germany and Japan in particular purged most of those elements from their society. Here we built statues to the evil fucks That is a historical fact which has important explanatory power. It may not directly be the best basis for public Democratic platform, which most people probably agree with. The core manifestation is in our institutions, and that's what we need to fix. I agree with you that framing it through the lens of corruption is the best overt political strategy.
- 0xDEAFBEAD 1mo ago
  Is this theory falsifiable? What would it look like if this problem was "fixed"? Many confederate statues were taken down--did anything change as a result? The entire thing seems like a delusional crusade against windmills. Focus on the present, not the past. I get the sense that many in this thread simply have an un-quenched lust for re-education camps. Probably under Stalin they'd be mumbling about dastardly capitalist spies and saboteurs.
  - otterley 1mo ago
    > Many confederate statues were taken down--did anything change as a result? The entire thing seems like a delusional crusade against windmills. Focus on the present, not the past. This sounds like a thinly-veiled argument to keep them up. But why should we keep them up? In what universe does it make sense to honor the losers of a failed coup attempt against our nation by embodying them in statutes? The reason many continue to pursue this is because of the surprising number of people who want to maintain them. It's not a "crusade against windmills," it's a crusade against people who want to honor the enemies of our nation. It's as understandable as being upset that a group of people would want to maintain an Osama bin Laden statue in the middle of Manhattan. Taking statues down may not change much in and of itself, but it's a small piece of the bigger puzzle. > I get the sense that many in this thread simply have an un-quenched lust for re-education camps. Well that escalated quickly.

otterley 1mo ago

I’m generally aligned with your point, but I also don’t think the official position of the Democratic Party is that we need a cultural revolution, nor do I observe most Democrats feel that way. What I do see is media and politicians on the Right characterizing extreme positions held by a minority of folks on the far Left as though they are adopted by the entire Left, and that weak uncritical minds on the Right believe that nonsense. Rush Limbaugh pioneered this technique to profit himself, and Trump gave him a fucking Presidential Medal of Freedom in his first term.

0xDEAFBEAD 1mo ago
I think you're somewhat underestimating how effectively the far-left minority has scared others into silence. Anyways, I do what I can to push back against them when they say things which seem wacky to me, as in this instance. Maybe I should work harder to make my actual views clear. I added a few sentences to the end of my original comment in this thread: "I don't think this is a slavery thing. Trump just sucks." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49572347 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49572347
- otterley 1mo ago
  > I think you're somewhat underestimating how effectively the far-left minority has scared others into silence Besides all the YouTube videos, X posts, the addition of two new right-wing TV networks (OANN and NEWSMAX), “Truth” Social, WSJ, NY Post, etc.? Silence is a myth perpetuated by the right (“people are trying to suppress the truth and your 1A rights!”) to build a following when in fact opposition voices are plentiful.
  - 0xDEAFBEAD 1mo ago
    I don't think people on the right are scared. I think too many center-left Democrats are scared.
    - otterley 1mo ago
      Of what?
      - 0xDEAFBEAD 1mo ago
        Censure and career threats by leftists.
- tupaarnaq 1mo ago
  Scared others into silence with what magical powers? Zero control of both chambers, zero control of the executive, military, cable news, Supreme Court, law enforcement etc. With what is this mighty far left minority scaring people? Protest sit-ins on campuses? That's what makes you quake?

vkou 1mo ago

> because they cling to unpopular positions on cultural issues. The Republican propaganda machine will always be ready to make any cultural issue the dems hold 'unpopular'. They turn anything and everything into a culture war, and if nothing exists, they are more than happy to manufacture it. Observe how they turned their own vaccine into a cultural issue.

0xDEAFBEAD 1mo ago
Many people, including me, not all of us Republicans, have observed that the Dems were much saner before 2010 or so.
- otterley 1mo ago
  What happened around 2010 that might have precipitated whatever changes you’re thinking of?
  - 0xDEAFBEAD 1mo ago
    Tumblr? Cultural shifts from social media started to gather momentum roughly around that time.
    - otterley 1mo ago
      There was a lot for people to be angry about, particularly the quagmires in Iraq and Afghanistan that the Bush administration got us into as a knee-jerk reaction to 9/11, combined with the 2008 financial crisis and Wall Street public bailout that culminated in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street
      - 0xDEAFBEAD 1mo ago
        None of those events were the focus of the cultural shifts I'm referring to.

anon84873628 1mo ago

This whole thread started with: >We're still fighting the remnants of the confederacy. Germany and Japan in particular purged most of those elements from their society. Here we built statues to the evil fucks That is a historical fact which has important explanatory power. It may not directly be the best basis for public Democratic platform, which most people probably agree with. The core manifestation is in our institutions, and that's what we need to fix. I agree with you that framing it through the lens of corruption is the best overt political strategy.

0xDEAFBEAD 1mo ago
Is this theory falsifiable? What would it look like if this problem was "fixed"? Many confederate statues were taken down--did anything change as a result? The entire thing seems like a delusional crusade against windmills. Focus on the present, not the past. I get the sense that many in this thread simply have an un-quenched lust for re-education camps. Probably under Stalin they'd be mumbling about dastardly capitalist spies and saboteurs.
- otterley 1mo ago
  > Many confederate statues were taken down--did anything change as a result? The entire thing seems like a delusional crusade against windmills. Focus on the present, not the past. This sounds like a thinly-veiled argument to keep them up. But why should we keep them up? In what universe does it make sense to honor the losers of a failed coup attempt against our nation by embodying them in statutes? The reason many continue to pursue this is because of the surprising number of people who want to maintain them. It's not a "crusade against windmills," it's a crusade against people who want to honor the enemies of our nation. It's as understandable as being upset that a group of people would want to maintain an Osama bin Laden statue in the middle of Manhattan. Taking statues down may not change much in and of itself, but it's a small piece of the bigger puzzle. > I get the sense that many in this thread simply have an un-quenched lust for re-education camps. Well that escalated quickly.