4 ms·

The difficulty for the US is people seem to be against a Federal Government ID. India doesn't seem to have this stigma and hence rural India can solve this prob

by abirch 22d ago

The difficulty for the US is people seem to be against a Federal Government ID. India doesn't seem to have this stigma and hence rural India can solve this problem.

micromacrofoot 22d ago
I don't think people are against it, we already have the social security identifiers as a government layer... it's just that no one in the government is willing to do it for free in a way that is accessible to everyone
- abirch 22d ago
  I think this is the horse shoe theory where the far left and right are against it. https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-conservative-and-liberal-allies-denounce-national-id-card-plan-intelligence https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-conservative-and-li... I know people who don't have a social security number because their parents didn't want them to be tracked by the system.
  - what 21d ago
    Do they live in the woods? How do they work and pay taxes?
    - abirch 21d ago
      Yes, very rural place or the woods. No idea about taxes, etc. I remember him explaining that you only need a SSN if you want to receive it and a diatribe about the mark of the beast. When the guy was trying to get a passport, he asked if anyone could show a picture of him from our high school yearbook.
- dragonwriter 22d ago
  > I don't think people are against it Every time national ID gets moderately serious discussion it is revealed very clearly that yes, the people are against it. RealID—which was simply national standardization of state issued ID (when used for a variety of important purposes) had intense resistance, too—and its the closest policy to national ID that has passed. Social Security identifiers are not ID for the person, and anyway were adopted nearly a century ago at a moment of higher-than-current trust in the federal government.
  - iamnothere 22d ago
    It would help if the federal government didn’t show itself to abuse ID databases every time it gets ahold of one. I don’t see how we could develop a national ID in an environment of such low trust (bidirectionally). You need a government that’s responsive to citizens and obeys constitutional guardrails, and citizens who trust the government to protect their best interests. We haven’t had that since the prior century (and last century the government was still breaking our trust, it just didn’t make the news).
  - mixdup 22d ago
    People are against national IDs because of privacy, not racism like a previous comment in this thread suggested People are against requiring certain types of IDs to vote as racism or other forms of voter suppression because it may cost money to get those IDs or be very very hard to do so, when there are other methods to authenticate a person for voting Those are two separate issues and complaints.
    - fc417fc802 22d ago
      Just to add a bit. In a few different places in the US I've had multiple ID offices within easy driving (or bus) distance and wait times ranged from short to annoying but bearable. When I lived near the ghetto in a different state I had roughly 2 choices, one 30 minutes out and the other over an hour (by car without traffic). Bus? Hah! Have fun. Arriving at the nearer of the two within an hour or so of opening in the morning there was already a multi-hour line for service. Don't worry though, there's definitely not any sort of institutional racism behind the various efforts to require certain forms of ID to vote. /s
      - micromacrofoot 21d ago
        before you could get a social security card replaced online I lived in a poor area and getting a replacement took most of the day between getting there and sitting in an awful waiting room for hours... god forbid you forgot something or they rejected your proof of identity and you had to do it all over again
- mrguyorama 22d ago
  America has a substantial fundamentalist christian population who was handed a conspiracy theory about ID cards being a sign of the antichrist as depicted in Revelations decades ago and just will maintain that conspiracy theory for eternity. The minimum size of this population, people who are adamant that the world is 10k years old, that god created everything as it currently is within those past 10k years, and therefore that all of science is a conspiracy in league with satan to deceive you from god, is about 30 million people. That's the percentage of Americans that willingly state such a belief when an alternative survey option is "Earth is old but god is still real and meaningful and doing everything" ie the current Catholic Dogma. That exact same cohort is the singular reason for the Satanic Panic back in the 80s, for every child that "wasn't allowed" to participate in Halloween, for kids that weren't allowed to read Harry Potter because it "promoted witchcraft". These people insist we are in a constant and active war against actual physical demons that have infiltrated much of society. They believe they are losing this "war". They believe they are following God's orders. They believe anything is permissible in this war
  - fc417fc802 22d ago
    That's not a conspiracy theory. It's a cautionary tale in the same vein as Don't Create the Torment Nexus. Some people proceed to take it overly literally and engage in wild fantasy (ironic considering the typical views of that population on things like D&D).

by abirch 22d ago

The difficulty for the US is people seem to be against a Federal Government ID. India doesn't seem to have this stigma and hence rural India can solve this problem.

micromacrofoot 22d ago

I don't think people are against it, we already have the social security identifiers as a government layer... it's just that no one in the government is willing to do it for free in a way that is accessible to everyone

abirch 22d ago
I think this is the horse shoe theory where the far left and right are against it. https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-conservative-and-liberal-allies-denounce-national-id-card-plan-intelligence https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-conservative-and-li... I know people who don't have a social security number because their parents didn't want them to be tracked by the system.
- what 21d ago
  Do they live in the woods? How do they work and pay taxes?
  - abirch 21d ago
    Yes, very rural place or the woods. No idea about taxes, etc. I remember him explaining that you only need a SSN if you want to receive it and a diatribe about the mark of the beast. When the guy was trying to get a passport, he asked if anyone could show a picture of him from our high school yearbook.
dragonwriter 22d ago
> I don't think people are against it Every time national ID gets moderately serious discussion it is revealed very clearly that yes, the people are against it. RealID—which was simply national standardization of state issued ID (when used for a variety of important purposes) had intense resistance, too—and its the closest policy to national ID that has passed. Social Security identifiers are not ID for the person, and anyway were adopted nearly a century ago at a moment of higher-than-current trust in the federal government.
- iamnothere 22d ago
  It would help if the federal government didn’t show itself to abuse ID databases every time it gets ahold of one. I don’t see how we could develop a national ID in an environment of such low trust (bidirectionally). You need a government that’s responsive to citizens and obeys constitutional guardrails, and citizens who trust the government to protect their best interests. We haven’t had that since the prior century (and last century the government was still breaking our trust, it just didn’t make the news).
- mixdup 22d ago
  People are against national IDs because of privacy, not racism like a previous comment in this thread suggested People are against requiring certain types of IDs to vote as racism or other forms of voter suppression because it may cost money to get those IDs or be very very hard to do so, when there are other methods to authenticate a person for voting Those are two separate issues and complaints.
  - fc417fc802 22d ago
    Just to add a bit. In a few different places in the US I've had multiple ID offices within easy driving (or bus) distance and wait times ranged from short to annoying but bearable. When I lived near the ghetto in a different state I had roughly 2 choices, one 30 minutes out and the other over an hour (by car without traffic). Bus? Hah! Have fun. Arriving at the nearer of the two within an hour or so of opening in the morning there was already a multi-hour line for service. Don't worry though, there's definitely not any sort of institutional racism behind the various efforts to require certain forms of ID to vote. /s
    - micromacrofoot 21d ago
      before you could get a social security card replaced online I lived in a poor area and getting a replacement took most of the day between getting there and sitting in an awful waiting room for hours... god forbid you forgot something or they rejected your proof of identity and you had to do it all over again
mrguyorama 22d ago
America has a substantial fundamentalist christian population who was handed a conspiracy theory about ID cards being a sign of the antichrist as depicted in Revelations decades ago and just will maintain that conspiracy theory for eternity. The minimum size of this population, people who are adamant that the world is 10k years old, that god created everything as it currently is within those past 10k years, and therefore that all of science is a conspiracy in league with satan to deceive you from god, is about 30 million people. That's the percentage of Americans that willingly state such a belief when an alternative survey option is "Earth is old but god is still real and meaningful and doing everything" ie the current Catholic Dogma. That exact same cohort is the singular reason for the Satanic Panic back in the 80s, for every child that "wasn't allowed" to participate in Halloween, for kids that weren't allowed to read Harry Potter because it "promoted witchcraft". These people insist we are in a constant and active war against actual physical demons that have infiltrated much of society. They believe they are losing this "war". They believe they are following God's orders. They believe anything is permissible in this war
- fc417fc802 22d ago
  That's not a conspiracy theory. It's a cautionary tale in the same vein as Don't Create the Torment Nexus. Some people proceed to take it overly literally and engage in wild fantasy (ironic considering the typical views of that population on things like D&D).