4 ms·

I studied biochem in undergrad and my classes were full of premed students. I loved the subject and nerded out about the course material - I spent my time desi

by echelon 1mo ago

I studied biochem in undergrad and my classes were full of premed students. I loved the subject and nerded out about the course material - I spent my time designing my own experiments around gene cloning that took several semesters to run. They were sharing last year's tests with their frat buddies and laughing at us nerds. I've never looked at doctors the same way again after college. I looked up to them as a child, yet after seeing how the sausages were made, I started to doubt everything. I frequently ask doctors, who spend all of ten minutes with me while the nurses do all the work, about the molecular specifics of what they're talking about. They talk down to me as if they're explaining to a child, yet they're frequently quite wrong. I'm not trying to sound superior to them, but I'm shocked they seem to care so little about the subject. It doesn't give me much hope about what they know and their abilities or competency. I suspect surgeons and specialists are a different breed and aren't like this at all. And to be clear, this isn't everyone. But it does seem to be the majority I've interacted with throughout my life. When they act disgruntled at patient interaction, I detest that their profession tries to cap the number of med students per year. We should be letting in as many med students as we can take. We should let doctors from overseas immigrate and easily become practicing doctors here in the US. We should provide easy paths for nurses to become doctors. The premed students in my university were chiefly concerned about money and prestige. They drove BMWs gifted to them by their parents and laughed at what I drove and how hard I studied. I had to put up with their bullying for years. I know not everyone who studies to become a doctor is like that, but it permanently skewed my view of their profession.

qsera 1mo ago
>When we should let doctors from overseas immigrate and easily become practicing doctors here in the US. Lol, what does this has to do with anything regarding aptitude or curiosity!?
- Omniusaspirer 1mo ago
  To the parent posters credit, he's very honest that he developed a personal complex against doctors when he was a poor student. He just sees it as a way to lash out at American doctors, the irony being that foreign medical graduates leaving their families and communities to practice in America largely do so because they are exceptionally money motivated. That doesn't make them bad doctors, but there's certainly less likelihood they're doing it purely for the love of medicine or a desire to care for their communities. I do agree with the sentiment though that the US needs to fund more residency slots as it's an asinine professional barrier, and that we would benefit from more physicians coming from more diverse financial backgrounds.
  - throw234259 1mo ago
    > certainly less likelihood they're doing it purely for the love of medicine or a desire to care for their communities. Maybe self preservation? In east europe, public hospitals will force doctors to work 36 hours shifts (overnight ER with theoretical sleep). Doctors have a full criminal liability for mall practise.
- Dylan16807 1mo ago
  If we reduce the artificial shortage of doctors then the number of people entering the field specifically to make big money goes down.
  - qsera 1mo ago
    > people entering the field specifically to make big money goes down... This is a self defeating argument, because for it to work it requires that there is a larger number of people who love the field than the number of people who are in only for the $$$ (or else there will be even more scarcity of doctors).. Which is not the case.
    - Dylan16807 1mo ago
      We have a surplus of people that want to become doctors and would work hard enough to do so. If we removed the artificial limits on residency, the supply of doctors would increase, which lowers wages somewhat, which lowers the number of people that want to become doctors. It reaches a new balance point with more doctors than before. That itself is a good thing. For it to also improve the motivations of doctors, all that needs to be true is that someone more motivated by money is more likely to be in the group that switches career. It does not require the number of people that love the field to be a majority. Not that loving the field is a binary in the first place. People are a mix of motivations and cutoffs are arbitrary.
      - qsera 1mo ago
        > It reaches a new balance point with more doctors than before. But you just pull this "more doctors than before" out of your ass. There is no such assurance. If less people want to become doctors, then eventually there will be less doctors, not more.
        Dylan16807 1mo ago
        I didn't pull it out of my ass. It's basic logic that if you remove a supply restriction then the supply goes up. Let's attach fake numbers: Right now only 50 people can get residency each year, and 80 people starting college each year want to be doctors and would work hard enough. If you let everyone get residency, at first you'd make 80 doctors per year. This would decrease doctor pay and then only 75 people would want to be doctors, then 70. But if this ever dropped back near 50 for long, wages would spike back up, and the candidates would hit 80 again. It stabilizes in between, at 63. With a bottleneck at X, and potential supply at Y, removing the bottleneck gets you a number between X and Y. All else equal, it can't stabilize below X. There will not 'eventually' be less doctors. Alternatively don't even remove the bottleneck at first. Increase the residency bottleneck to 60. The number of potential doctors drops below 80, but it stays above 60, so now you have 60 doctors per year and the most money-motivated took a different major. TL;DR: Let the number of residencies rise and the number of people that want to be doctors lower until they meet in the middle. Because residencies decide the actual number of doctors, meeting in the middle gives you more doctors.

by echelon 1mo ago

qsera 1mo ago

>When we should let doctors from overseas immigrate and easily become practicing doctors here in the US. Lol, what does this has to do with anything regarding aptitude or curiosity!?

Omniusaspirer 1mo ago
To the parent posters credit, he's very honest that he developed a personal complex against doctors when he was a poor student. He just sees it as a way to lash out at American doctors, the irony being that foreign medical graduates leaving their families and communities to practice in America largely do so because they are exceptionally money motivated. That doesn't make them bad doctors, but there's certainly less likelihood they're doing it purely for the love of medicine or a desire to care for their communities. I do agree with the sentiment though that the US needs to fund more residency slots as it's an asinine professional barrier, and that we would benefit from more physicians coming from more diverse financial backgrounds.
- throw234259 1mo ago
  > certainly less likelihood they're doing it purely for the love of medicine or a desire to care for their communities. Maybe self preservation? In east europe, public hospitals will force doctors to work 36 hours shifts (overnight ER with theoretical sleep). Doctors have a full criminal liability for mall practise.
Dylan16807 1mo ago
If we reduce the artificial shortage of doctors then the number of people entering the field specifically to make big money goes down.
- qsera 1mo ago
  > people entering the field specifically to make big money goes down... This is a self defeating argument, because for it to work it requires that there is a larger number of people who love the field than the number of people who are in only for the $$$ (or else there will be even more scarcity of doctors).. Which is not the case.
  - Dylan16807 1mo ago
    We have a surplus of people that want to become doctors and would work hard enough to do so. If we removed the artificial limits on residency, the supply of doctors would increase, which lowers wages somewhat, which lowers the number of people that want to become doctors. It reaches a new balance point with more doctors than before. That itself is a good thing. For it to also improve the motivations of doctors, all that needs to be true is that someone more motivated by money is more likely to be in the group that switches career. It does not require the number of people that love the field to be a majority. Not that loving the field is a binary in the first place. People are a mix of motivations and cutoffs are arbitrary.
    - qsera 1mo ago
      > It reaches a new balance point with more doctors than before. But you just pull this "more doctors than before" out of your ass. There is no such assurance. If less people want to become doctors, then eventually there will be less doctors, not more.
      - Dylan16807 1mo ago
        I didn't pull it out of my ass. It's basic logic that if you remove a supply restriction then the supply goes up. Let's attach fake numbers: Right now only 50 people can get residency each year, and 80 people starting college each year want to be doctors and would work hard enough. If you let everyone get residency, at first you'd make 80 doctors per year. This would decrease doctor pay and then only 75 people would want to be doctors, then 70. But if this ever dropped back near 50 for long, wages would spike back up, and the candidates would hit 80 again. It stabilizes in between, at 63. With a bottleneck at X, and potential supply at Y, removing the bottleneck gets you a number between X and Y. All else equal, it can't stabilize below X. There will not 'eventually' be less doctors. Alternatively don't even remove the bottleneck at first. Increase the residency bottleneck to 60. The number of potential doctors drops below 80, but it stays above 60, so now you have 60 doctors per year and the most money-motivated took a different major. TL;DR: Let the number of residencies rise and the number of people that want to be doctors lower until they meet in the middle. Because residencies decide the actual number of doctors, meeting in the middle gives you more doctors.