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"You" is 10-20% of the US population. The rest will never actually be able to afford retirement, and have no investments. 50% don't have an extra $500 in case o

"You" is 10-20% of the US population. The rest will never actually be able to afford retirement, and have no investments. 50% don't have an extra $500 in case of emergency. ----- edit: Financial literacy is not alchemy. It will not turn nothing into something. The price of consumption has risen insanely (which is why investors have done well), and consumption when you're poor is not optional or luxurious. There may not be a lump of labor, but there's certainly a lump of profit. 10-20% are getting it because 80-90% aren't. We've created a society (again) where the people who are most rewarded are the people who work the least (and whine about school lunches and shoplifting.) Owning things is the most lucrative job you can have; if you exclusively own and don't work, you've probably doubled or tripled your worth since covid. If you worked, at the lowest end you've barely kept your head above water, and at the middle end you've lost major ground. If you're either lower or middle, and you've accidentally reproduced (bad morlock!), you could be homeless after a single bad year. With the high end worker is where you need financial literacy; but if you don't spend enough, how are you going to meet the people who will employ you or find you employment? Assuming they'll come to your small, somewhat comfortable apartment far from your workplace, attracted by your home haircuts and your cheap but comfortable clothes to have conversations about your used books, houseplants, and how hard your bicycle commute is, over one of your three board games - you've now moved the meter to 15-25% being able to retire one day. Congratulations, you're European. Objection 1: Are you arguing that it's not 50%, but more like 40%? Because I wasn't attempting an exact figure. You gave me a median number that is under a Bronze plan's deductible. One concussion will bankrupt them. A childbirth will throw them into $10Ks of debt. Objection 2: 50% report owning stock in a Gallup poll. Which I'm sure includes at least 60% saying "you mean some money in a 401K?" Temp services have 401Ks that some people have contributed hundreds of dollars to.

rootsudo 1mo ago
You’re not wrong, but the onus is on whom to provide financial literacy? The majority of people do have a safety net in social security. While it may not be enough, it is something…
- nemomarx 1mo ago
  Is it something? like do you think the program will still be around in 50 years for today's graduates, etc?
  - rootsudo 1mo ago
    1. I’ll be in that cohort so yes, I hope it’d be around. 2. There is a cost of living adjustment matched to inflation. 3. It was supposed to supplement your retirement not fund it. But I do agree it is on shaky ground with the current administration and the future of the US dollar in the world. The problem is, if I’m critical of it and it crashes, I get nothing. So why would I be critical of my own interest? Do I have alternatives such as buying vanguard ETFs and minimizing risk? Yes, is that the primary vehicle? More assurance than social security, that’s for sure. But who knows what’d happen in 25 years.
- SoftTalker 1mo ago
  > the onus is on whom to provide financial literacy Should be a huge part of the K-12 curriculum in a putative capitalist country, but we barely touch on it. Kids graduate high school and don't really understand time value of money or how a credit card, a 401k, a car loan, or a mortgage work.
1-more 1mo ago
Maybe things have changed since 2022, but per the Fed's survey that year, the median American had $8,000 in transaction accounts alone (not unrealized stock gains, vehicles, houses, retirement, etc.). Because that's a median, 50% of the population had that much or more. By age cohort, the smallest median dollar amount was under 35s with $5,400, and the largest was 65-74s with $13,400 https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scf/dataviz/scf/chart/#series:Transaction_Accounts;demographic:agecl;population:all;units:median https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scf/dataviz/scf/chart...
Dylan16807 1mo ago
Those numbers are usually a bit iffy, but also retirement funds and emergency funds are separate things and you can have a retirement fund without a big emergency fund. If your plan for a rare emergency is "don't pay off the credit card in full for two months" then that's probably fine.
acheron 1mo ago
Well over 50% of the US population has investments. https://news.gallup.com/poll/266807/percentage-americans-owns-stock.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/266807/percentage-americans-own...
1-more 1mo ago
> Are you arguing that it's not 50%, but more like 40%? Because I wasn't attempting an exact figure. You gave me a median number that is under a Bronze plan's deductible. One concussion will bankrupt them. A childbirth will throw them into $10Ks of debt. OK then say that! The made up $500 emergency number is not true and thus not an effective argument. The precariousness and contingency of healthy and self-sufficient life as regards $5-10,000 emergencies absolutely is an effective argument! You take my statement of fact as a statement of opinion counter to yours when we are probably closer than you'd think. Funny enough it was getting my wages garnished to pay for the MRI that my insurance didn't cover after I got a concussion when I was hit by a car on my bike commute that got me really into politics that demand we apply material analysis to material conditions, if you catch my meaning.

rootsudo 1mo ago

You’re not wrong, but the onus is on whom to provide financial literacy? The majority of people do have a safety net in social security. While it may not be enough, it is something…

nemomarx 1mo ago
Is it something? like do you think the program will still be around in 50 years for today's graduates, etc?
- rootsudo 1mo ago
  1. I’ll be in that cohort so yes, I hope it’d be around. 2. There is a cost of living adjustment matched to inflation. 3. It was supposed to supplement your retirement not fund it. But I do agree it is on shaky ground with the current administration and the future of the US dollar in the world. The problem is, if I’m critical of it and it crashes, I get nothing. So why would I be critical of my own interest? Do I have alternatives such as buying vanguard ETFs and minimizing risk? Yes, is that the primary vehicle? More assurance than social security, that’s for sure. But who knows what’d happen in 25 years.
SoftTalker 1mo ago
> the onus is on whom to provide financial literacy Should be a huge part of the K-12 curriculum in a putative capitalist country, but we barely touch on it. Kids graduate high school and don't really understand time value of money or how a credit card, a 401k, a car loan, or a mortgage work.

1-more 1mo ago

Maybe things have changed since 2022, but per the Fed's survey that year, the median American had $8,000 in transaction accounts alone (not unrealized stock gains, vehicles, houses, retirement, etc.). Because that's a median, 50% of the population had that much or more. By age cohort, the smallest median dollar amount was under 35s with $5,400, and the largest was 65-74s with $13,400 https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scf/dataviz/scf/chart/#series:Transaction_Accounts;demographic:agecl;population:all;units:median https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scf/dataviz/scf/chart...

Dylan16807 1mo ago

Those numbers are usually a bit iffy, but also retirement funds and emergency funds are separate things and you can have a retirement fund without a big emergency fund. If your plan for a rare emergency is "don't pay off the credit card in full for two months" then that's probably fine.

acheron 1mo ago

Well over 50% of the US population has investments. https://news.gallup.com/poll/266807/percentage-americans-owns-stock.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/266807/percentage-americans-own...

1-more 1mo ago

> Are you arguing that it's not 50%, but more like 40%? Because I wasn't attempting an exact figure. You gave me a median number that is under a Bronze plan's deductible. One concussion will bankrupt them. A childbirth will throw them into $10Ks of debt. OK then say that! The made up $500 emergency number is not true and thus not an effective argument. The precariousness and contingency of healthy and self-sufficient life as regards $5-10,000 emergencies absolutely is an effective argument! You take my statement of fact as a statement of opinion counter to yours when we are probably closer than you'd think. Funny enough it was getting my wages garnished to pay for the MRI that my insurance didn't cover after I got a concussion when I was hit by a car on my bike commute that got me really into politics that demand we apply material analysis to material conditions, if you catch my meaning.