8 ms·

Wait, why does Apple even have the power to do this...? It's a connector... Why on earth is it possible to patent a connector that doesn't involve any particul

Wait, why does Apple even have the power to do this...? It's a connector... Why on earth is it possible to patent a connector that doesn't involve any particular innovation (take wires, rearrange a bit, tweak shell shape) in the first place...?!?

marshray 14y ago
I haven't seen the connector myself, but I would not expect it to be devoid of all innovation. But I do find it somewhat disturbing that after 100+ years we're still finding patentable modifications to ordinary low-voltage plugs. Someone should make a Kickstarter for a compatible charging connector that unambiguously avoids all the patents. Something dirt-simple like just a few bare metal pins sticking out providing voltage and alignment. Now that would be disrupting the ecosystem.
- JohnTHaller 14y ago
  You can't. Apple built DRM into their cable with a proprietary security chip. All DRMed and patended up nicely to lock everyone out of just about everything.
  - marshray 14y ago
    Bastards. Well, as long as someone has a cable somewhere that your DC supply can proxy communications to...
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - czhiddy 14y ago
    A minimal amount of googling would've uncovered the actual purpose of the chip: http://brockerhoff.net/blog/2012/09/23/boom-pins/ http://brockerhoff.net/blog/2012/09/23/boom-pins/ Care to provide any sources describing the DRM capabilities?
    - marshray 14y ago
      From your link, the discussion doesn't seem to have a definitive conclusion: The folks at Chipworks has done a more professional teardown, revealing that the connector contains, as expected, a couple of power-switching/regulating chips, as well as a previously unknown TI BQ2025 chip, which appears to contain a small amount of EPROM and implements some additional logic, power-switching, and TI’s SDQ serial signalling interface. SDQ also uses CRC checking on the message packets, so a CRC generator would be on the chip. Somewhat confusingly, Chipworks refer to CRC as a “security feature”, perhaps trying to tie into the authentication angle, but of course any serial protocol has some sort of CRC checking just to discard packets corrupted by noise. So until someone finds a truly dumb Lightning charging cable, the question as to whether or not DRM prevents it is alive.
guptaneil 14y ago
There's a digital chip within the connector that authenticates the cable and routes the signals to the appropriate pins. This is what they license.
- snogglethorpe 14y ago
  Wait, so.... DRM in the cable? I remember rolling my eyes a bit when people complained about the new connector, but man, this thing actually is starting to sound kind of evil...
  - veemjeem 14y ago
    Well, it's not really drm -- the chip in there is used for lots of stuff. There was an article about the thunderbolt cable (which has a similar design to lightning) where it has a chip inside that cable as well. Note that thunderbolt was actually designed by intel. I think lots of future cables will have these chips in them. In thunderbolt, the chip mutiplexes & demultiplexes the data. Perhaps the idea is that speed increases can be had just by upgrading your cable instead of upgrading the port. In the lightning cable, the chip is also responsible for determining the orientation of your connection, since the connector is reversible.
    - josteink 14y ago
      Well, it's not really drm Except that now nobody can make a cable/connector without Apple giving them permission first. Sure sounds like DRM to me.
      - snogglethorpe 14y ago
        Soooo, sort of "DRM with plausible deniability"... ><
      - catch23 14y ago
        Doesn't DRM stand for digital rights management? I think you may have confused it with something else. DRM doesn't prevent people from manufacturing cables -- it's to prevent the end user from accessing content they don't own. DRM was never aimed as a way to reduce the number of manufacturers out there. In fact, DRM wanted to increase the number of manufacturers so that there would be less hardware that could play media that you didn't buy (pirated content).
dlitz 14y ago
More people need to ask this kind of question.

marshray 14y ago

I haven't seen the connector myself, but I would not expect it to be devoid of all innovation. But I do find it somewhat disturbing that after 100+ years we're still finding patentable modifications to ordinary low-voltage plugs. Someone should make a Kickstarter for a compatible charging connector that unambiguously avoids all the patents. Something dirt-simple like just a few bare metal pins sticking out providing voltage and alignment. Now that would be disrupting the ecosystem.

JohnTHaller 14y ago
You can't. Apple built DRM into their cable with a proprietary security chip. All DRMed and patended up nicely to lock everyone out of just about everything.
- marshray 14y ago
  Bastards. Well, as long as someone has a cable somewhere that your DC supply can proxy communications to...
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- czhiddy 14y ago
  A minimal amount of googling would've uncovered the actual purpose of the chip: http://brockerhoff.net/blog/2012/09/23/boom-pins/ http://brockerhoff.net/blog/2012/09/23/boom-pins/ Care to provide any sources describing the DRM capabilities?
  - marshray 14y ago
    From your link, the discussion doesn't seem to have a definitive conclusion: The folks at Chipworks has done a more professional teardown, revealing that the connector contains, as expected, a couple of power-switching/regulating chips, as well as a previously unknown TI BQ2025 chip, which appears to contain a small amount of EPROM and implements some additional logic, power-switching, and TI’s SDQ serial signalling interface. SDQ also uses CRC checking on the message packets, so a CRC generator would be on the chip. Somewhat confusingly, Chipworks refer to CRC as a “security feature”, perhaps trying to tie into the authentication angle, but of course any serial protocol has some sort of CRC checking just to discard packets corrupted by noise. So until someone finds a truly dumb Lightning charging cable, the question as to whether or not DRM prevents it is alive.

guptaneil 14y ago

There's a digital chip within the connector that authenticates the cable and routes the signals to the appropriate pins. This is what they license.

snogglethorpe 14y ago
Wait, so.... DRM in the cable? I remember rolling my eyes a bit when people complained about the new connector, but man, this thing actually is starting to sound kind of evil...
- veemjeem 14y ago
  Well, it's not really drm -- the chip in there is used for lots of stuff. There was an article about the thunderbolt cable (which has a similar design to lightning) where it has a chip inside that cable as well. Note that thunderbolt was actually designed by intel. I think lots of future cables will have these chips in them. In thunderbolt, the chip mutiplexes & demultiplexes the data. Perhaps the idea is that speed increases can be had just by upgrading your cable instead of upgrading the port. In the lightning cable, the chip is also responsible for determining the orientation of your connection, since the connector is reversible.
  - josteink 14y ago
    Well, it's not really drm Except that now nobody can make a cable/connector without Apple giving them permission first. Sure sounds like DRM to me.
    - snogglethorpe 14y ago
      Soooo, sort of "DRM with plausible deniability"... ><
    - catch23 14y ago
      Doesn't DRM stand for digital rights management? I think you may have confused it with something else. DRM doesn't prevent people from manufacturing cables -- it's to prevent the end user from accessing content they don't own. DRM was never aimed as a way to reduce the number of manufacturers out there. In fact, DRM wanted to increase the number of manufacturers so that there would be less hardware that could play media that you didn't buy (pirated content).

dlitz 14y ago

More people need to ask this kind of question.