3 ms·
Study: Blue light impairs the eye's ability to distinguish fine detail most
- slim 2mo agoIls this new research ? Why is it for me common knowledge ? Everyone knows blue light looks blurry because blue retina receptors have lower definition
- TwoFerMaggie 2mo agohttps://xkcd.com/1053/ https://xkcd.com/1053/
- Neywiny 2mo agohttps://xkcd.com/2501/ https://xkcd.com/2501/
- mkl 2mo agoIsn't this well known? The human retina has fewer blue-sensitive cone cells, and very few in the fovea, which sees the sharpest details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_cell#Distribution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_cell#Distribution
- mrngld 2mo agoI get that the guy needed to write a paper on something to get his PhD (in psychology, which might explain some of this as well, I thought standards were a little higher in the hard sciences), but don't know why it deserves a high profile. At least, based on merit.
- madaxe_again 2mo agoI certainly thought so. I have astigmatism and I cannot for the life of me read blue LED/neon signs at any reasonable distance at night. Any other colour, no problem. Blue is just a blurry mess.
- snarfy 2mo agoBlue Blocker glasses were a thing since the 80s
- dinfinity 2mo agoWell, the title here at HN implies something else than the study shows. If blue light actually impaired vision, that would be very notable. It would mean that removing the blue 'channel' for an RGB image would improve acuity. This is not what the study showed, however. It is mainly just the basic fewer cones bit you mentioned. Which, btw, is easily experienced if you ever look from a distance at neon or led signs that only emit blue light. They'll persistently look out of focus when compared to their surroundings.
- vanderZwan 2mo ago> If blue light actually impaired vision, that would be very notable. It is extremely noticeable for me at night because I can never fully focus on signs using blue LEDs, while red LEDs give me no problem.
- bunderbunder 2mo agoFrom the paper's abstract (emphasis mine): "Wavelength influences multiple aspects of visual performance, yet its role in spatial resolution remains incompletely understood due to confounding factors such as luminance differences, chromatic aberration, and intraocular scatter." They then did some modeling to estimate how well the results could be explained by scattering, chromatic aberration and, neural sampling (the cone cell density factor that you mentioned). They concluded that none of them could completely explain the observed results, but their results seemed to suggest the bulk of the effect is due to optical effects, with neurological factors as a secondary cause. Refining existing knowledge by examining phenomena in more detail is how science should be done. The pressure to focus on discovering entirely new things is a major cause of the replication crisis.
- mkl 2mo agoAh, another over-claiming university press release. That explains it!
- bunderbunder 2mo agoI don't think it over-claimed anything? Maybe over-simplified for certain purposes. But to expect a press release to be a complete accounting of the research it reports on is to misunderstand the purpose of press releases. A press release that says everything that's in the paper would be pointless and redundant.
- HumblyTossed 2mo agoYeah. I worked in the optical industry to pay for college. That was decades ago and one of the Drs I worked with and I had discussions on this. It was interesting at the time as I knew very little about optics when I started.
- Jarmsy 2mo agoHere's a neat demonstration of this https://www.schulz-hildebrandt.com/9-purple-dots-illusion/ https://www.schulz-hildebrandt.com/9-purple-dots-illusion/ (I find the effect works much better on my phone screen than desktop)
- HPsquared 2mo agoBlue light also probably has more dispersion (aka chromatic aberration) .. I wonder how the eye deals with chromatic aberration, if we just filter it out by processing or if the system doesn't really suffer from it? Edit: or perhaps that's the reason why we don't have high resolution in blue.
- Simulacra 2mo agoInteresting, i've read in the past that blue lights are used sometimes in places where they want to dissuade people from intravenous drug use because the blue light makes it harder to find a vein. I wonder if that qualifies as fine detail.
- mister_mort 2mo agoThe hospital toilets in Melbourne definitely have that setup. It was weird seeing basically every surface as just a shade of blue and nothing else. I do wonder - now that most people have a phone with a flashlight - would not the druggies illuminate their own arms with white light and not be too bothered?
- fpoling 2mo agoThe same is in many public toilets in Norway. I suppose holding both a syringe and a source of light at the same time is not that convenient.
- jacobolus 2mo agoThat's not at all about fine detail, but is about relative amounts of absorption/reflection of the light between skin vs. vein. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metamerism_(color) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metamerism_(color)
- AngryData 2mo agoWe should also note that it is a gimmick meant to sell expensive specialty bulbs. Addicts don't need good light to find a vein. And even if it was a problem they still have a lighter and/or phone.
- steve_taylor 2mo agoI'm trying to get my hands on some decently high wattage (100W ideally) incandescent bulbs because it's really been bugging me lately that while I can still focus just fine, I have trouble making out details and some colours in artificial lighting. I've come to the conclusion that there's really no substitute for light generated from heat.
- yardie 2mo agoI found some in my local dollar store (dollar general, dollar general, etc). You may want to try down market stores.
- bushwart 2mo agoI have some LED bulbs at home but I use G9 halogens in either an E14 or an E27 adapter for the places where light quality is important to me. I tried a number of so-called "full spectrum" LED bulbs but I don't find the light they produce quite as satisfying as my halogens.
- brookst 2mo agoIt hugely depends on the quality of the light. Look at CRI (and the newer, better TM-30). Low quality LED lighting is just terrible, the room appears light but colors and details are poor.
- steve_taylor 2mo agoIt's technically possible to achieve a 100 CRI score with a broad enough range of frequency spikes rather than the continuous range of frequencies you get from incandescent bulbs. So even the best LED bulb isn't going to match incandescent.
- brookst 2mo agoSure, that’s why TM-30 is better. Black body will probably always be better, but people unhappy with LED often have CRI < 80 LEDs when even 95+ isn’t necessarily great.
- 2mo ago
- vanderZwan 2mo ago> Many factors, like light scattering and imperfections in the eye’s optics, keep light from coming into sharp focus on the retina, Buabeng said. > The study also found that iris pigmentation influenced how far apart the two light points needed to be before viewers could distinguish them as separate points. Using a standardized iris color chart, researchers classified each participant’s eye color before analyzing the results. Participants with lighter-colored irises, particularly blue eyes, experienced greater light scatter than those with darker brown irises. Sounds like the research took a next step beyond previous studies on the same subject. You know, basically how science is supposed to work. Something anyone giving a flippant reply here could have figured out if they actually had read the article.
- kazinator 2mo agoNope; here is 2013 research about it: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22527312/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22527312/ And 1991: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/004269899190057C https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/004269... It has to do with stray light diffusing much more easily through unpigmented irises than pigmented.
- vanderZwan 2mo agoAnd did those studies use the same methods as this one? Because this makes it look like they didn't: > Methods: In this retrospective cohort study, which is a subgroup analysis of a large prospective trial about visual impairments in European car drivers, we included 853 persons between 20 and 80 years of age and without a history of ocular surgery or any eye disease including cataract. Subjects participated in an ophthalmological examination, grading of lens opacity, and the measurement of visual functions such as IOSL, CS, and BCVA. Dependent on iris color, participants were divided into four groups: light-blue, blue-grey, green-hazel, and brown. > The straylight function of the human eye depends on eye color, especially at larger angles of scattering. As a potential cause for this dependence, transmission of light through the ocular wall was measured, using a psychophysical method. Even if this paper turns out to be the "boring" science kind that refines earlier results with different methods, it would still be science.
- keymasta 2mo agoI've had some light-sensitivity issues for as long as a remember. So I always get glasses with transitions. On computer though I've always been using flux [0] since it came out. I know that now a lot of OSes are supporting some kind of night mode, but I really like how there are some different parameters you can adjust in flux. And it's free. [0] https://justgetflux.com/ https://justgetflux.com/
- hobo123 2mo agoAlso worth mentioning Twilight on Android.
- bitgeist 2mo agoI will always upvote a comment supporting f.lux given the chance to. Fantastic piece of software.
- BoingBoomTschak 2mo agoJust read https://justgetflux.com/privacy/ https://justgetflux.com/privacy/ carefully. We receive and store any information you knowingly provide to us. For example, if you use our Software to search for your location, we may collect geolocation data (including, without limitation, city names and specific addresses you provide). We may choose to buy or sell assets. In these types of transactions, customer information is typically one of the business assets that would be transferred. Still rocking Redshift on X11.
- bunderbunder 2mo agoI've discovered, for my part, that wearing yellow glasses works even better than f.lux when I'm working in an environment where I can't control the ambient lighting.
- wolfi1 2mo agoso did John Rambo use the wrong light?
- BoingBoomTschak 2mo agoLooks like we French had the right idea with yellow headlights? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_yellow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_yellow
- fakedang 2mo agoThis is plain obvious, I don't know why this isn't mainstream everywhere. The new cars with white lights are often blinding.
- anfilt 2mo agoIf you look at the spectrum of white LEDs they have a much higher blue light content than compared to other lighting technologies. Often it's an other peak in the spectrum. Also a lot of street lights have been replaced with LEDs, although probably better than Sodium Vapor since that light source has pretty narrow spectrum. Probably means we should all be using warmer LEDs, instead of like 5000K, 4000K ect... for night lighting.
- westurner 2mo agoFrom notes for an open source bowling alley: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48971134 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48971134 : > Most flying insects cannot see red, orange or yellow light; > Red preserves night vision. Blue keeps operators awake. Blue and white cause the worst glare. Jet instrument gauges are reddish/orange-ish.
- AngryData 2mo agoIve seen a truck with super yellow light addons and I have to say they were surprisingly horrible and hard to look at. Red and orange still seem okay but the yellow ones were just painful. But perhaps they were also broadcasting a bunch of white light too with it because ive only seen those style twice.
- jmpman 2mo agoHow was this study not done back in the 1950s?
- vanderZwan 2mo agoWell, I can think of a couplo of reasons why a black Ghanaian man would not be likely to pursue his PhD at the University of Georgia in the 1950s, but I'm not sure if that was the question you were begging for.
- jmpman 1mo agoNo, I was asking about basic physiology research.
- amluto 2mo agoOn a related note, anyone wearing prescription glasses will be affected by chromatic aberration to some degree, which may notably cause the blue portion of the image to be shifted relative to the rest of the image, which makes text and other detail harder to see and can be annoying. This effect is accentuated when looking at a strongly trichromatic source like a computer or screen because the spectrum is discontinuous and the blue content has more power at shorter wavelengths than most natural sources. You can mitigate this by using lenses made from a material with a higher Abbe value. Polycarbonate is the worst, CR-58 is the best, and Trivex is quite good. Trivex is also impact resistant, so it’s an excellent alternative to polycarbonate. The high-index plastics are quite bad, so if you don’t need them, consider asking for mid-index or Trivex instead.
- lightedman 2mo ago"On a related note, anyone wearing prescription glasses will be affected by chromatic aberration to some degree" Fluorite lenses FTW. Practically zero aberration. CR-58 pales in comparison.
- amluto 2mo agoEww, that's awful. Calcium fluorite has a rather low IOR and is very dense. What you want is a sapphire lens, except that the birefringence might be problematic.
- lightedman 2mo agoThat birefringence in corundum is why fluorite is used. Fluorite lenses low index of refraction across all wavelengths is also the reason for lacking chromatic aberration. Fluorite lenses are generally superior. For macro photography there is literally no equivalent.
- amluto 2mo agoYou are welcome to wear a macro lens cantilevered out from the bayonet mount built into your face :) I would prefer a lightweight, or at least not outrageously thick and heavy, pair of glasses.
- mannanj 2mo agoI've been noticing the affect of gold light during gold hour, specifically during sunset. I find I have more creative ideas for problems I've been chewing on come up, and also feel an indescribable calm. I've been trying to notice the affects of all the specific color phases of the sun and feel they each play a special role in our physiology. I also wear glasses and I feel calmer and more "affected" during these periods when I take them off.
- jart 2mo agoWhat’s your favourite illuminant? http://justine.lol/dox/illumination.txt http://justine.lol/dox/illumination.txt It makes sense that black people might want to explore different ones than D65 if we consider the history of CIE colorimetry. Has anyone actually done a scientific inquiry into their ability to perceive radiation?
- creamedpeas 2mo agoIn politics it impairs the brain from thinking clearly!
- rconti 2mo agoFirst thing I thought of when I read the title was "ah, I learned this from Daniel Stern's lighting page..." https://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/blue/bad/bad.html https://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/blue/bad/bad....
- QuercusMax 2mo agoI was curious what Marv from Home Alone had to say about lighting... guess it must be a different guy!
- abeppu 2mo agoIn my neighborhood there is an optometry place with a dark blue lighted sign. At night, it looks fuzzy, and I have to assume they knew this would be the case. People walking by squint at it and inevitably think "maybe I _should_ get my eyes checked!"