4 ms·

CobaltC – The Successor to C?

13 points by SilentLambda 1mo ago

drgo 1mo ago
reads more like a Wishlist rather than actual implementable specs.
- nextaccountic 1mo ago
  every spec is implementable some just delegate more or less to the implementation
  - nextaccountic 1mo ago
    that said, the borrowing part is incredibly short on details i read trying to assess if it's more or less expressible than rust's current nll or the future polonius and honestly there's nothing there
ronsor 1mo ago
Before I read this, what is there about C3 [0] you don't like? [0] https://c3-lang.org https://c3-lang.org
- jjtheblunt 1mo ago
  C3 is an embarrassing mess regarding integer types and sizes, missing C99's stdint.h defs, for example.
  - strenholme 1mo ago
    To clarify: C3 has fixed sized ints. Maybe the parent poster doesn’t like their names, but they are fixed sized, as follows: Name Size Signed bool 1 no ichar 8 yes char 8 no short 16 yes ushort 16 no int 32 yes uint 32 no long 64 yes ulong 64 no int128 128 yes uint128 128 no Source: https://c3-lang.org/language-overview/types/#integer-types https://c3-lang.org/language-overview/types/#integer-types
    - jjtheblunt 1mo ago
      i reckon it's easy enough to alias the stdint.h types and define them in terms of the size definitions above. i'd forgotten that the C3 pointer types are the ones whose bit size varies by platform. mea culpa.
yoklov 1mo ago
This is certainly copying off Rust's homework...
- Fordec 1mo ago
  Who copied off Haskells homework, so here we are.
  - irishcoffee 1mo ago
    And cloudflare still somehow shipped a rust binary that crashed half the internet.
    - katdork 1mo ago
      and I've had Haskell binaries attempt to use infinite quantities of RAM (looking at an old version of dconf2nix here) and thus crash
pizlonator 1mo ago
This doesnt seems to be meaningfully different from Rust. > does not require tracing garbage collection Just call it garbage collection. (Applies in two ways: if you think that garbage collection subsumes reference counting then this language doesn’t require garbage collection in the sense that it also doesn’t require reference counting; if you think that garbage collection does not subsume reference counting then there’s no point in saying three words when you can say two.)
- AlotOfReading 1mo ago
  It's less specified than rust. For example, you can bind references to individual collection elements here. It doesn't seem to prohibit borrowing a dynamically indexed element either, which is one hell of a static analysis lift. Seems like you can also have simultaneous references to distinct static indices (e.g. &mut arr[0] and &mut arr[1]) as long as you don't do invalidating operations, which isn't expressible in NLL or polonius. That's feasible for a borrowchecker at least.
ethin 1mo ago
This is so obviously written by ChatGPT from what I can tell. Not even an attempt to copyedit it unless I missed something.
- thinkafter 1mo ago
  I’m not sure about copy but the UI seems designed to look like an AI response which is certainly a choice
- hyperhello 1mo ago
  [flagged]
- KellyCriterion 1mo ago
  ...and UI is clearly spotable as AI generated with whatever tool....
ternaryoperator 1mo ago
It's great to have it all spec'd out. However, I think specs like this suffer the same fate as war plans: they get modified quickly as soon as implementation begins. Nonetheless, it's good to have a clear idea of where you're headed. I just wouldn't call it "Final."
woodruffw 1mo ago
Another one?
- SilentLambda 1mo ago
  Yes, but remember is the last appendix to a book, and book provides the context for this appendix. So yes, in that sense, it's just another one attempting to address the memory-safety issues of C. At least this one uses C like syntax and doesn't require C programmers to learn some alien syntax. Of course, this is just a spec, Rust is well and truly live in the environment. The book is more interesting than the spec.
- Gualdrapo 1mo ago
  Odin's turn to be "the sucessor of C" is due this month
rurban 1mo ago
Unsafe identifiers, prone to homoglyph attacks. No TR39 provisions. Worse than rust or Java. https://strawberry9.github.io/the-wrong-memory/Appendix_06.html#section-6 https://strawberry9.github.io/the-wrong-memory/Appendix_06.h...
SilentLambda 1mo ago
According to ChatGPT, the CobaltC language specification does now (since the spec was recently updated with an errata) provide sufficient syntactic, structural, and semantic boundaries to begin high-level compiler implementation planning, despite intentionally leaving lower-level mechanical decisions to the developer.

13 points by SilentLambda 1mo ago

drgo 1mo ago

reads more like a Wishlist rather than actual implementable specs.

nextaccountic 1mo ago
every spec is implementable some just delegate more or less to the implementation
- nextaccountic 1mo ago
  that said, the borrowing part is incredibly short on details i read trying to assess if it's more or less expressible than rust's current nll or the future polonius and honestly there's nothing there

ronsor 1mo ago

Before I read this, what is there about C3 [0] you don't like? [0] https://c3-lang.org https://c3-lang.org

jjtheblunt 1mo ago
C3 is an embarrassing mess regarding integer types and sizes, missing C99's stdint.h defs, for example.
- strenholme 1mo ago
  To clarify: C3 has fixed sized ints. Maybe the parent poster doesn’t like their names, but they are fixed sized, as follows: Name Size Signed bool 1 no ichar 8 yes char 8 no short 16 yes ushort 16 no int 32 yes uint 32 no long 64 yes ulong 64 no int128 128 yes uint128 128 no Source: https://c3-lang.org/language-overview/types/#integer-types https://c3-lang.org/language-overview/types/#integer-types
  - jjtheblunt 1mo ago
    i reckon it's easy enough to alias the stdint.h types and define them in terms of the size definitions above. i'd forgotten that the C3 pointer types are the ones whose bit size varies by platform. mea culpa.

yoklov 1mo ago

This is certainly copying off Rust's homework...

Fordec 1mo ago
Who copied off Haskells homework, so here we are.
- irishcoffee 1mo ago
  And cloudflare still somehow shipped a rust binary that crashed half the internet.
  - katdork 1mo ago
    and I've had Haskell binaries attempt to use infinite quantities of RAM (looking at an old version of dconf2nix here) and thus crash

pizlonator 1mo ago

This doesnt seems to be meaningfully different from Rust. > does not require tracing garbage collection Just call it garbage collection. (Applies in two ways: if you think that garbage collection subsumes reference counting then this language doesn’t require garbage collection in the sense that it also doesn’t require reference counting; if you think that garbage collection does not subsume reference counting then there’s no point in saying three words when you can say two.)

AlotOfReading 1mo ago
It's less specified than rust. For example, you can bind references to individual collection elements here. It doesn't seem to prohibit borrowing a dynamically indexed element either, which is one hell of a static analysis lift. Seems like you can also have simultaneous references to distinct static indices (e.g. &mut arr[0] and &mut arr[1]) as long as you don't do invalidating operations, which isn't expressible in NLL or polonius. That's feasible for a borrowchecker at least.

ethin 1mo ago

This is so obviously written by ChatGPT from what I can tell. Not even an attempt to copyedit it unless I missed something.

thinkafter 1mo ago
I’m not sure about copy but the UI seems designed to look like an AI response which is certainly a choice
hyperhello 1mo ago
[flagged]
KellyCriterion 1mo ago
...and UI is clearly spotable as AI generated with whatever tool....

ternaryoperator 1mo ago

It's great to have it all spec'd out. However, I think specs like this suffer the same fate as war plans: they get modified quickly as soon as implementation begins. Nonetheless, it's good to have a clear idea of where you're headed. I just wouldn't call it "Final."

woodruffw 1mo ago

Another one?

SilentLambda 1mo ago
Yes, but remember is the last appendix to a book, and book provides the context for this appendix. So yes, in that sense, it's just another one attempting to address the memory-safety issues of C. At least this one uses C like syntax and doesn't require C programmers to learn some alien syntax. Of course, this is just a spec, Rust is well and truly live in the environment. The book is more interesting than the spec.
Gualdrapo 1mo ago
Odin's turn to be "the sucessor of C" is due this month

rurban 1mo ago

Unsafe identifiers, prone to homoglyph attacks. No TR39 provisions. Worse than rust or Java. https://strawberry9.github.io/the-wrong-memory/Appendix_06.html#section-6 https://strawberry9.github.io/the-wrong-memory/Appendix_06.h...

SilentLambda 1mo ago

According to ChatGPT, the CobaltC language specification does now (since the spec was recently updated with an errata) provide sufficient syntactic, structural, and semantic boundaries to begin high-level compiler implementation planning, despite intentionally leaving lower-level mechanical decisions to the developer.