3 ms·
Is the Norwegian government’s theory that a modern company might never realize their gains, and avoid taxation indefinitely, and thus this is a forcing mechanis
by jt2190 1mo ago
Is the Norwegian government’s theory that a modern company might never realize their gains, and avoid taxation indefinitely, and thus this is a forcing mechanism to extract some tax revenue?
- LanceH 1mo agoI don't know how a company could avoid all taxes. They say that Amazon does, but that's only the corporate income tax, surely they are paying billions in payroll, property, energy, and other taxes.
- aaomidi 1mo agoProperty is an easy one: Don’t tax us and we’ll bring jobs to your area.
- culi 1mo agoGood Jobs First has tracked $11b in public subsidies to Amazon so far https://goodjobsfirst.org/amazon-tracker/ https://goodjobsfirst.org/amazon-tracker/ You have to take that into account and look at the NET of what we've paid Amazon vs what they've paid us
- LanceH 1mo agoStop throwing subsidies. Easy fix without a wealth tax. There are a plethora of taxes that companies pay, but a tax on existence is just awful in so many ways. Make zero dollars this year? You lose a percent of the company -- congrats. There is a middle ground: Make using the securities of the company as collateral a taxable event. If it's good enough to back a loan, it's wealth, realized.
- M95D 1mo agoAll the examples you gave are cost cutting targets that any competent manager will do their best (worst) to minimize, except properties. Those appreciate over time a lot more than taxes are worth.
- decimalenough 1mo agoThe wealth tax targets millionaires who structure their income so they don't pay income or corporate tax, but can't avoid owning assets like company shares and property. Loss-making startups with unicorn level valuations are a tiny edge case.
- seanmcdirmid 1mo agoI'd much rather there be a pre-tax on loans rather than a wealth tax to prevent premature liquidation. The former makes sense: if you borrow money, you should pre-pay the tax you would pay once you pay off the loan, or at least some fixed minimum percent that can raised or lower at the time the loan is paid off. And get rid of the stupid step up in basis on death. A wealth tax on unrealized assets is going to create huge distortions in the economy, there are other ways we can fix this.
- altairprime 1mo agoThat’s an accurate description of the majority of VC investment outcomes. The outlier-success stories aren’t called unicorns because they’re common. So it tracks that Norway would tax valuations to curtail investments that generate no economic value for Norway (such as a typical forever-profitless business in round G with no profits to tax) and promote investments that generate economic value for Norway (such as a typical profitable business with profits to tax) — and if the VC gamblers want to gamble in Norway, their claimed valuations are taken at face value and taxed accordingly, which provides a direct financial incentive against valuation inflation.
- bot403 1mo agoThat round G company with negative cashflow is probably employing people, buying goods and services, etc all within Norway. To say it's not generating economic value is disingenuous at best.
- altairprime 1mo agoWhat % of their annual spend goes to foreign clouds? For most unicorns that would be their largest or second-largest cost, since unicorns, by design, tend to be focused on growth engines that scale up users without scaling up headcount. Taking 1% of a VC startup’s headcount is almost nothing relative to the money left on the table from 1% of their cloud costs. A sensible startup wouldn’t necessarily fit this description, but those are out of scope — this post is focused on unicorns, so that’s my focus as well.