4 ms·

there is a whole campaign online about hating on the EU & its regulations.

whatsThisBtn4 28d ago
I made a physical product and upon learning European regulations, I quickly decided I was going to spend 0 time designing it for Europe. If I made millions, sure, pay someone to figure it out. But I was not going to waste design time early on. I can't imagine how much this affects small business in Europe.
- foldr 28d ago
  These are just general barriers to international trade, though. Small manufacturers in Europe may likewise decide not to design for US regulations.
  - mft_ 28d ago
    No (what I’m fairly sure is being referred to is that) there are (very recent) significant additional barriers to trade between EU member states, which disproportionately impact small businesses.
    - foldr 28d ago
      I don't think so. The most natural reading of OP's post is that they are outside Europe. You wouldn't say "I can't imagine how much this affects small business in Europe" if you were yourself running a small business in Europe.
      - setsewerd 28d ago
        Unless you were in Europe and didn't run a small business
        foldr 28d ago
        Ok, but their post talks about making a product in small volumes. It doesn't explicitly say that it's a small business, but together with the first person singular language, that's definitely the impression given. Also, their other posts suggest they are in the US: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49477186 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49477186
  - WA 27d ago
    Relative of mine is Swiss. They produce cookies for the US market. Every few years, an FDA-adjacent regulator comes to Switzerland, inspects the place in person, expects dinner, entertainment and whatnot, gives his signature and off he goes. My relative says that no other country they export to overseas is this far-reaching (not to say over-reaching) regulatory-wise.
leokennis 28d ago
Especially Gruber is getting really tiresome. Almost devolving into a “look at them there fruity Yuropeeans with their healthcare and holidays”-level of tech commentary about any minor roadbump big-US-tech encounters in the EU.
Sharlin 28d ago
There are many powerful actors in whose interests it is to spread FUD about the EU, and none of those entities have the average citizen’s best interests in mind.
deleted 28d ago
[deleted]
unsupp0rted 28d ago
I dunno, recently traveling through Europe I mentally “joined” the campaign by seeing the ridiculousness for myself. I very much support their ideals and their people-centered mindset. But in execution it’s that meme: US rocket lands in slow motion on reusable pad, Chinese rocket lands in slow motion on reusable pad, European hand in slow motion closes a water bottle cap that is permanently attached to the bottle and always hits you in the nose.
- haizhung 28d ago
  Does the slowly landing rocket in any way improve live for ordinary people?
  - apexalpha 28d ago
    Yeah: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink Billions of people are getting access to information through it.
    - M95D 28d ago
      Good for them! We, europeans, already have fiber everywhere and unlimited 5G mobile internet for 2 euro/month.
      - unsupp0rted 27d ago
        “2 euro/month” is what you pay directly out of pocket. Your taxes pay the rest.
        gls2ro 27d ago
        The same goes for landing rockets on the moon. You pay from your taxes.
        M95D 27d ago
        I can't be absolutely sure, but I don't think this is true. This company [1] I'm paying 2euro/month to, AFAIK is not subsidized and never was. They already spread fiber and cable long before we joined EU (in 2007) and I had this 2euro plan since 2006. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digi_Communications https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digi_Communications On the other hand, SpaceX did receive a lot of money from the state.
mft_ 28d ago
Maybe it’s all a misinformation campaign… or maybe even people who live in, recognise and benefit from the good sides of the European experience, can also legitimately criticise bad aspects? It’s not binary - there are shades of grey.
gman83 28d ago
I mean this isn't some hidden agenda. The Heritage Foundation has an active plan to dismantle the EU from within.
seydor 28d ago
Are you sure about it? In fact,eu commission and parliament are Meta's biggest political spenders in most EU countries. https://www.facebook.com/ads/library/report/?source=onboarding https://www.facebook.com/ads/library/report/?source=onboardi... Personally i find this type of knee-jerk reaction to any discussion about the EU suspicious
on_the_train 28d ago
I'm a European citizen. I hate the EU.
- torlok 28d ago
  Europeans were blowing each other up 80 years ago. Now we have complete freedom of movement and trade. You're missing the forest for the trees. The EU is the greatest achievement of our parents' generation.
ponector 28d ago
People are hating it untill goes abroad to the countries where no such regulations exists. Like in Switzerland it's okay to charge double for the car insurance simply because you carry "unlucky" citizenship. Or EU law about mandatory 14-day return policy for internet order. Ordered recently something in Switzerland and turns out it was a special sale where standard rules does not apply and items could not be returned. Or mandatory USB-C charge socket. God bless EU regulations!
- gman83 28d ago
  You're right that the EU has much stricter baseline consumer protections than Switzerland, but none of the examples you gave are actually part of the GDPR. Insurance pricing rules come from EU equal treatment directives, the 14-day online return window is the EU Consumer Rights Directive, and the USB-C mandate is the Common Charger Directive (which Switzerland actually adopted into law in 2024 anyway). The GDPR is strictly about data privacy, and it deserves defense on its real merits: it made data collection illegal by default without an explicit legal basis, banned deceptive tracking patterns, and introduced turnover-based fines large enough that tech companies actually had to re-engineer their systems around privacy by design. EU consumer protection directives are great, but it's worth crediting the right ones.

I made a physical product and upon learning European regulations, I quickly decided I was going to spend 0 time designing it for Europe. If I made millions, sure, pay someone to figure it out. But I was not going to waste design time early on. I can't imagine how much this affects small business in Europe.

foldr 28d ago
These are just general barriers to international trade, though. Small manufacturers in Europe may likewise decide not to design for US regulations.
- mft_ 28d ago
  No (what I’m fairly sure is being referred to is that) there are (very recent) significant additional barriers to trade between EU member states, which disproportionately impact small businesses.
  - foldr 28d ago
    I don't think so. The most natural reading of OP's post is that they are outside Europe. You wouldn't say "I can't imagine how much this affects small business in Europe" if you were yourself running a small business in Europe.
    - setsewerd 28d ago
      Unless you were in Europe and didn't run a small business
      - foldr 28d ago
        Ok, but their post talks about making a product in small volumes. It doesn't explicitly say that it's a small business, but together with the first person singular language, that's definitely the impression given. Also, their other posts suggest they are in the US: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49477186 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49477186
- WA 27d ago
  Relative of mine is Swiss. They produce cookies for the US market. Every few years, an FDA-adjacent regulator comes to Switzerland, inspects the place in person, expects dinner, entertainment and whatnot, gives his signature and off he goes. My relative says that no other country they export to overseas is this far-reaching (not to say over-reaching) regulatory-wise.

leokennis 28d ago

Especially Gruber is getting really tiresome. Almost devolving into a “look at them there fruity Yuropeeans with their healthcare and holidays”-level of tech commentary about any minor roadbump big-US-tech encounters in the EU.

Sharlin 28d ago

There are many powerful actors in whose interests it is to spread FUD about the EU, and none of those entities have the average citizen’s best interests in mind.

deleted 28d ago

[deleted]

unsupp0rted 28d ago

I dunno, recently traveling through Europe I mentally “joined” the campaign by seeing the ridiculousness for myself. I very much support their ideals and their people-centered mindset. But in execution it’s that meme: US rocket lands in slow motion on reusable pad, Chinese rocket lands in slow motion on reusable pad, European hand in slow motion closes a water bottle cap that is permanently attached to the bottle and always hits you in the nose.

haizhung 28d ago
Does the slowly landing rocket in any way improve live for ordinary people?
- apexalpha 28d ago
  Yeah: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink Billions of people are getting access to information through it.
  - M95D 28d ago
    Good for them! We, europeans, already have fiber everywhere and unlimited 5G mobile internet for 2 euro/month.
    - unsupp0rted 27d ago
      “2 euro/month” is what you pay directly out of pocket. Your taxes pay the rest.
      - gls2ro 27d ago
        The same goes for landing rockets on the moon. You pay from your taxes.
      - M95D 27d ago
        I can't be absolutely sure, but I don't think this is true. This company [1] I'm paying 2euro/month to, AFAIK is not subsidized and never was. They already spread fiber and cable long before we joined EU (in 2007) and I had this 2euro plan since 2006. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digi_Communications https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digi_Communications On the other hand, SpaceX did receive a lot of money from the state.

mft_ 28d ago

Maybe it’s all a misinformation campaign… or maybe even people who live in, recognise and benefit from the good sides of the European experience, can also legitimately criticise bad aspects? It’s not binary - there are shades of grey.

gman83 28d ago

I mean this isn't some hidden agenda. The Heritage Foundation has an active plan to dismantle the EU from within.

seydor 28d ago

Are you sure about it? In fact,eu commission and parliament are Meta's biggest political spenders in most EU countries. https://www.facebook.com/ads/library/report/?source=onboarding https://www.facebook.com/ads/library/report/?source=onboardi... Personally i find this type of knee-jerk reaction to any discussion about the EU suspicious

on_the_train 28d ago

I'm a European citizen. I hate the EU.

torlok 28d ago
Europeans were blowing each other up 80 years ago. Now we have complete freedom of movement and trade. You're missing the forest for the trees. The EU is the greatest achievement of our parents' generation.

ponector 28d ago

People are hating it untill goes abroad to the countries where no such regulations exists. Like in Switzerland it's okay to charge double for the car insurance simply because you carry "unlucky" citizenship. Or EU law about mandatory 14-day return policy for internet order. Ordered recently something in Switzerland and turns out it was a special sale where standard rules does not apply and items could not be returned. Or mandatory USB-C charge socket. God bless EU regulations!

gman83 28d ago
You're right that the EU has much stricter baseline consumer protections than Switzerland, but none of the examples you gave are actually part of the GDPR. Insurance pricing rules come from EU equal treatment directives, the 14-day online return window is the EU Consumer Rights Directive, and the USB-C mandate is the Common Charger Directive (which Switzerland actually adopted into law in 2024 anyway). The GDPR is strictly about data privacy, and it deserves defense on its real merits: it made data collection illegal by default without an explicit legal basis, banned deceptive tracking patterns, and introduced turnover-based fines large enough that tech companies actually had to re-engineer their systems around privacy by design. EU consumer protection directives are great, but it's worth crediting the right ones.