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I am all for opposing Empire, but this is incredibly cringe and self-defeating.
by popalchemist 1mo ago
I am all for opposing Empire, but this is incredibly cringe and self-defeating.
- bryanrasmussen 1mo agopretty much the whole genre of manifestos is full of cringe inducing texts.
- jaggs 1mo agoWhy?
- bryanrasmussen 1mo agoanswered in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49488138 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49488138 as an aside younger writers of a certain poetic bent often want to write manifestos, and damn those tend to be really embarrassing.
- K0balt 1mo agoSee also https://fs.blog/chestertons-fence/ https://fs.blog/chestertons-fence/
- jaggs 1mo agoEmbarrassing for who?
- bryanrasmussen 1mo agocan't resist given the context, but it should be embarrassing for whom. When one says a text is embarrassing there are generally three potential objects of embarrassment, the writer, the reader, or, if there is one, the target of the text. In the case of a manifesto the manifesto writer intends for the target of the manifesto to be embarrassed, but often the actually embarrassed is the unsuspecting writer and the cringing reader.
- jaggs 1mo ago>> the manifesto writer intends for the target of the manifesto to be embarrassed Huh? Citation please. (and good catch on 'whom')
- bryanrasmussen 1mo ago>Huh? Citation please. it is of course a bit of a stretch on some of the meanings of embarrassed, as many manifestos want their targets to suffer things far worse than embarrassment, so let us say embarrassment is just one of the negative things a manifesto hopes to see in its target. Here are some synonyms for embarrassed - https://dictionary.cambridge.org/thesaurus/embarrassed https://dictionary.cambridge.org/thesaurus/embarrassed I believe as a general rule artistic manifestos are often very focused on causing some of these feelings in their targets. to make some examples: if we assume that the target of the Communist Manifesto is Capitalism we can say that it is hoped that Capitalism suffers negative consequences, amongst which embarrassment is a relatively minor one. If we assume that the Surrealist manifesto has a target of the old garde of French art we can say it is hoped that the old garde suffers some embarrassment and fades away, being inconsequential to the world that surrealism has created. The same operation seems to exist for any manifesto I have ever read, including the manifesto of the current discussion which, surprisingly, is not at all for any of the things it has announced it stands against. If you do not agree, please provide an example of a single manifesto that says we stand for certain things and the things that are against us are really great and we love them.
- jaggs 1mo ago>> artistic manifestos are often very focused on causing some of these feelings in their targets. I notice you have dropped in 'artistic' which is a new criterion. Sloppy. :) Not interested in chatting with bots for now.
- bryanrasmussen 1mo agoartistic manifestos are a subset of manifestos. As for me, I am not interested in chatting with people with a kink for insulting others as bots.
- giov4 1mo agocringe inducing texts? are you serious? what does that mean?
- bryanrasmussen 1mo agocringe in the modern vernacular means "behavior, content, or situations that cause acute embarrassment, awkwardness, or secondhand embarrassment" As a general rule most manifestos have a subtext of how the manifesto writers are brilliant people meant to get rid of the rubbish of the past and fix the current situation in whatever subject the manifesto is focused on. After the time of the text is gone and the manifesto is a piece of the past these manifestos may elicit either the feeling of how spot on they were, secondhand embarrassment, or just hilarity, sometimes even mixes of these feelings if your relation to the movement the manifesto champions is a complicated one. Thus when Andre Breton writes his actual poetry I might like it, but when he starts writing about what Surrealism will achieve I start thinking "give it a rest, Breton" and looking away at Yeats as someone not quite as embarrassing.
- jaggs 1mo agoWhy?
- throw310822 1mo agoI don't think so, care to elaborate?
- giov4 1mo agowhy? explain, also using cring as word is incredibly cringe and self-defeating. But please exaplain why, or just throwing s** randomly?
- popalchemist 1mo ago[flagged]
- 47282847 1mo agoClassic ad hominem and straw man with no substance. Congratulations for the straightforward self-defeat.
- popalchemist 1mo agothe content is written by a group of autistics and displays characteristic lack of social situational awareness, i.e. it's tone-deaf as to how it will be recieved. It comes off as extremely pretentious, bordering even on megalomaniacal (it's a "manifesto" after all - something typically left to serial killers, unabomber types, and bond villains...) They are now flagged as a terrorist group by the federal gov. So, I wasn't speaking hyperbole.
- 47282847 1mo agoI’m trying to follow your position, but I need more context to understand which elements of the text made you form that opinion. All I read is a list of personal judgments; nothing that helps me or anyone to argue over them.
- popalchemist 1mo agoThe things I mentioned are not personal judgements, they are recognized traits of autism (although they appear on a spectrum and there's variance).
- giov4 1mo ago
- gizajob 1mo agoPart of the cringe comes from certain quirks of Italian speakers using English.