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Well, only way to stop Iran from having a nuclear weapon is denying them electricity. Trump can do it easily but it literally means "ending civilisation" (knock

Well, only way to stop Iran from having a nuclear weapon is denying them electricity. Trump can do it easily but it literally means "ending civilisation" (knock out all thermal plants and monitor with infrared sensors to ensure they are not restored, there is no way to hide a working power plant). But it means no city life. Maybe it will come to that. Iran needs to be made irrelevant, and this can be done by working around the strait by building enough pipelines, in 1-3 years they will be gradually commissioned, and Iran's leverage will no longer exist.

bigyabai 28d ago
Shaheds can be launched on battery or generator power as long as there's gasoline. Iran's satellite targeting is managed through Chinese intermediaries[0], and Trump isn't going to bomb China over it. So the denial of naval traffic can continue effectively forever, considering that Shaheds can be made with lawnmower motors and homemade fiberglass. Building pipelines is a contingency, because Iran's leverage over the strait will exist until the US dismantles the cell-like resistance structures of the IRGC. A few years of this will have disastrous effects on the tourism-dependent Gulf economies, and could force mass migration if desalination facilities are attacked and fertilizer is denied import. If the rich people leave and the poor people die, then Israel's victory over Iran is pyrrhic for America's allies and the global order. Escalation is therefore a sociopathic choice, for Americans. [0] https://www.irishtimes.com/world/middle-east/2026/04/15/iran-used-chinese-spy-satellite-to-target-us-bases/ https://www.irishtimes.com/world/middle-east/2026/04/15/iran...
- anovikov 28d ago
  Shaheds are not at all a problem. Yours truly is one of perhaps hundreds of entities who work on them and in Ukraine, it is a solved problem - virtually none of them ever gets through (question now is how to fight them cheaper and while letting them slip through less Ukrainian territory before being shot down - but in Gulf states it won't a problem, distances are much longer there). And after pipelines are built, straight will no longer be needed, and Iran will have to negotiate, or end up like Afghanistan (without electricity -> without functioning cities) - no one could call it a victory.
  - bigyabai 28d ago
    Shaheds are absolutely still a problem in the Gulf. They're the #1 tool used to disable maritime shipping, if it didn't work then the Strait of Hormuz would be open right now. In your opinion, what is keeping the Strait of Hormuz closed if not the Shaheds? Why can't all of the trapped vessels leave if the Shaheds don't work and the mines are cleared? The OCIMF sees them as a very legitimate threat to maritime traffic: https://safety4sea.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/OCIMF-Loitering-Munitions-The-Threat-to-Merchant-Ships_2023_11.pdf https://safety4sea.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/OCIMF-Loit... > And after pipelines are built, straight will no longer be needed The Strait will still be needed to import fertilizer, bulk goods, construction materials, cars and chemicals. Like I said; pipelines are a contingency that does not solve the maritime shipping problem except for crude. You can't send most imports through a pipeline. The Gulf is also used for water desalination, which provides the majority of freshwater to many Gulf states. Without fresh water or food being produced, America's Gulf allies will have bigger problems on their plate than just making America/Israel happy. The UAE, Bahrain and Qatar are all begging to deescalate before they pay the price for American and Israeli adventurism.
    - anovikov 28d ago
      Ships will carry interceptors, they are cheap, they are currently made for like 2-3K apiece. They can't handle jet-powered Shaheds, but those are a lot more expensive and won't be available in quantities nearly as big. And interceptors (electric too) for them are on the way, all that lacks is a range channel.
      - bigyabai 28d ago
        The US Navy has already expended thousands of interceptors. It didn't end the war, open the Strait or protect civilian traffic. Iran will keep this precision strike capability. There are still ships, oil derricks and desalination plants that are within range of the Shaheds. Therefore, it seems to me that Iran has a direct mechanism to escalate the humanitarian suffering if the US also decides to impose a catastrophe on Iran. Your original claim that things cannot escalate seems to contradict your qualification of "perhaps" working in defense. There's a lot of escalation left on the table, and not enough interceptors to shoot down every Shahed.

bigyabai 28d ago

Shaheds can be launched on battery or generator power as long as there's gasoline. Iran's satellite targeting is managed through Chinese intermediaries[0], and Trump isn't going to bomb China over it. So the denial of naval traffic can continue effectively forever, considering that Shaheds can be made with lawnmower motors and homemade fiberglass. Building pipelines is a contingency, because Iran's leverage over the strait will exist until the US dismantles the cell-like resistance structures of the IRGC. A few years of this will have disastrous effects on the tourism-dependent Gulf economies, and could force mass migration if desalination facilities are attacked and fertilizer is denied import. If the rich people leave and the poor people die, then Israel's victory over Iran is pyrrhic for America's allies and the global order. Escalation is therefore a sociopathic choice, for Americans. [0] https://www.irishtimes.com/world/middle-east/2026/04/15/iran-used-chinese-spy-satellite-to-target-us-bases/ https://www.irishtimes.com/world/middle-east/2026/04/15/iran...

anovikov 28d ago
Shaheds are not at all a problem. Yours truly is one of perhaps hundreds of entities who work on them and in Ukraine, it is a solved problem - virtually none of them ever gets through (question now is how to fight them cheaper and while letting them slip through less Ukrainian territory before being shot down - but in Gulf states it won't a problem, distances are much longer there). And after pipelines are built, straight will no longer be needed, and Iran will have to negotiate, or end up like Afghanistan (without electricity -> without functioning cities) - no one could call it a victory.
- bigyabai 28d ago
  Shaheds are absolutely still a problem in the Gulf. They're the #1 tool used to disable maritime shipping, if it didn't work then the Strait of Hormuz would be open right now. In your opinion, what is keeping the Strait of Hormuz closed if not the Shaheds? Why can't all of the trapped vessels leave if the Shaheds don't work and the mines are cleared? The OCIMF sees them as a very legitimate threat to maritime traffic: https://safety4sea.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/OCIMF-Loitering-Munitions-The-Threat-to-Merchant-Ships_2023_11.pdf https://safety4sea.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/OCIMF-Loit... > And after pipelines are built, straight will no longer be needed The Strait will still be needed to import fertilizer, bulk goods, construction materials, cars and chemicals. Like I said; pipelines are a contingency that does not solve the maritime shipping problem except for crude. You can't send most imports through a pipeline. The Gulf is also used for water desalination, which provides the majority of freshwater to many Gulf states. Without fresh water or food being produced, America's Gulf allies will have bigger problems on their plate than just making America/Israel happy. The UAE, Bahrain and Qatar are all begging to deescalate before they pay the price for American and Israeli adventurism.
  - anovikov 28d ago
    Ships will carry interceptors, they are cheap, they are currently made for like 2-3K apiece. They can't handle jet-powered Shaheds, but those are a lot more expensive and won't be available in quantities nearly as big. And interceptors (electric too) for them are on the way, all that lacks is a range channel.
    - bigyabai 28d ago
      The US Navy has already expended thousands of interceptors. It didn't end the war, open the Strait or protect civilian traffic. Iran will keep this precision strike capability. There are still ships, oil derricks and desalination plants that are within range of the Shaheds. Therefore, it seems to me that Iran has a direct mechanism to escalate the humanitarian suffering if the US also decides to impose a catastrophe on Iran. Your original claim that things cannot escalate seems to contradict your qualification of "perhaps" working in defense. There's a lot of escalation left on the table, and not enough interceptors to shoot down every Shahed.