5 ms·

TwitterWebViewer also no longer in operation, following a request from X Corp

41 points by flotzam 1mo ago

ChrisArchitect 1mo ago
Related discussion and predictions (2 days ago): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49449576 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49449576
- flotzam 1mo ago
  Seemed worth a new post, now that they actually killed it today :( Is there any frontend still standing?
  - zImPatrick 1mo ago
    Nitter itself is still fine, there are like 2 public-ish instances I‘m aware of but I think people should go out and host some in more private communities/run one over Tor or something
    - dredmorbius 1mo ago
      I don't know what your definition of "fine" is, but Nitter and XCancel received C&Ds three days ago: <https://github.com/zedeus/nitter/issues/1442 https://github.com/zedeus/nitter/issues/1442> HN: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49437283 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49437283> From HN's PoV, the issue is that there aren't well-known workarounds which can be used for X.com / Twitter.com submissions. HN's principle concern is more that any discussion on such posts will largely revolve around the regwall / paywall, which doesn't advance HN's own prime directive: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27901918 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27901918>
      - zImPatrick 26d ago
        I thought about it from functioning perspective, but yeah, legally it might‘ve been a bit dubious
  - dredmorbius 1mo ago
    ChrisArchitect is pretty good at distinguishing between when a discussion is a dupe and when it is related. Their comment history makes this clear.
rvz 1mo ago
This was obviously going to happen once Nitter got an immediate C&D. It just means that it will happen to these alternatives as well and the lawyers have all the money from X Corp to do just that. These open source projects circumventing X for free, unfortunately have zero chance in fighting these legal takedowns.
- flotzam 1mo ago
  Hoping we'll see more resilient development/hosting emerge
  - toomuchtodo 1mo ago
    Probably the best use case for onion routing and IPFS. Each X URL gets a content addressable IPFS URL, served via an onion site that should be hard to take down. Browser->Tor Onion site->IPFS as storage system pull through cache->X
    - flotzam 1mo ago
      Or just a .onion for the frontend and code forge + another server at some clearnet domain proxying it (until taken down and replaced with the new one) would probably work fine. The hidden service can even terminate TLS with a valid cert for the clearnet domain.
      - toomuchtodo 1mo ago
        True, I suggested IPFS as an hidden content addressable, globally distributed caching proxy and persistent object store. Run it from outside the reach of the US legal framework, like private/shadow libraries/archives (as you could consider it an archive of X, with public access when available). Another idea I recently had was extending Karakeep (https://github.com/karakeep-app/ https://github.com/karakeep-app/), which has robust archiving capabilities today, to enable announcing archived URLs via a DHT and serving the archive bundle as a torrent (similar to how the Internet Archive creates a torrent file for each item). With some work, it would be the equivalent of a distributed Wayback Machine, with each instance able to act as both scraper and server. With a browser extension that could query this DHT, you could retrieve an archived version of any URL that has been archived by cherry picking from the swarm (each URL becomes a magnet torrent URL, very similar to IPFS, but with less bootstrapping required imho). Distributed web adjacent (https://getdweb.net/ https://getdweb.net/).
Kim_Bruning 1mo ago
For HN, does that mean we should no longer be using X links, since most can't view them?
- moritzwarhier 1mo ago
  Content from X worth sharing is rare anyway. I'm not any authority here, but I'd say, there's no need for a Reddit-moment to ban it entirely. Though it wouldn't bother me either. Directly linked single text posts are still publicly accessible last I checked, but it's a microblogging platform littered with spam. HN submissions are usually long-form content, so it's rare to see X links anyway. And comments obey the voting system, so who cares whether people link to X, LinkedIn, Facebook or whatever else. Banning X in comments would require to ban the others as well, and I think the mods and users can handle by themselves what is relevant in that case. And in case an X submission is genuinely interesting, it won't be hard to access or infer the content from the comments or other sources.
  - angoragoats 1mo ago
    > HN submissions are usually long-form content, so it's rare to see X links anyway. There are, at minimum, tens of Twitter links that I see daily which make it to the first couple of pages of the site. A lot of them are AI-related content, which seems to be popular there. > And in case an X submission is genuinely interesting, it won't be hard to access or infer the content from the comments or other sources. I don’t want to have to do this. I think we should just disallow Twitter links for posts.
- ElijahLynn 1mo ago
  Same category and policy as paywalled news sites.
  - angoragoats 1mo ago
    No, it’s not anymore, since the HN FAQ[0] specifically states: “It's ok to post stories from sites with paywalls that have workarounds.“ There don’t appear to be workarounds for Twitter anymore. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html
dredmorbius 1mo ago
I've emailed HN's mods requesting Twitter/X links be site-banned as hard-paywalled, given that Nitter and XCancel had also just received C&Ds (<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49437283 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49437283>).
- Wowfunhappy 1mo ago
  I too dislike logging into Twitter/X, but that's not a paywall, the accounts are still free, no?
  - Daunk 1mo ago
    Is anything really "free"?
  - urbnspacecowboy 1mo ago
    Not good enough. Creating an account still leads to the "Your account was suspended for reasons, now you gotta dox yourself" dance. See previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49442907 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49442907
- Cider9986 1mo ago
  It can still by bypassed with working nitter instances. Nitter doesn't have to be legal. Archive.today certainly isn't.
spiderfarmer 1mo ago
X usage is declining and somebody is desperate to get some metrics up. https://trends.google.com/explore?q=%2Fm%2F0289n8t&date=today%205-y&geo=Worldwide https://trends.google.com/explore?q=%2Fm%2F0289n8t&date=toda...
- ValentineC 1mo ago
  All the AI sheep are still using it, just like the webdev sheep before that.

41 points by flotzam 1mo ago

Related discussion and predictions (2 days ago): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49449576 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49449576

flotzam 1mo ago
Seemed worth a new post, now that they actually killed it today :( Is there any frontend still standing?
- zImPatrick 1mo ago
  Nitter itself is still fine, there are like 2 public-ish instances I‘m aware of but I think people should go out and host some in more private communities/run one over Tor or something
  - dredmorbius 1mo ago
    I don't know what your definition of "fine" is, but Nitter and XCancel received C&Ds three days ago: <https://github.com/zedeus/nitter/issues/1442 https://github.com/zedeus/nitter/issues/1442> HN: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49437283 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49437283> From HN's PoV, the issue is that there aren't well-known workarounds which can be used for X.com / Twitter.com submissions. HN's principle concern is more that any discussion on such posts will largely revolve around the regwall / paywall, which doesn't advance HN's own prime directive: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27901918 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27901918>
    - zImPatrick 26d ago
      I thought about it from functioning perspective, but yeah, legally it might‘ve been a bit dubious
- dredmorbius 1mo ago
  ChrisArchitect is pretty good at distinguishing between when a discussion is a dupe and when it is related. Their comment history makes this clear.

rvz 1mo ago

This was obviously going to happen once Nitter got an immediate C&D. It just means that it will happen to these alternatives as well and the lawyers have all the money from X Corp to do just that. These open source projects circumventing X for free, unfortunately have zero chance in fighting these legal takedowns.

flotzam 1mo ago
Hoping we'll see more resilient development/hosting emerge
- toomuchtodo 1mo ago
  Probably the best use case for onion routing and IPFS. Each X URL gets a content addressable IPFS URL, served via an onion site that should be hard to take down. Browser->Tor Onion site->IPFS as storage system pull through cache->X
  - flotzam 1mo ago
    Or just a .onion for the frontend and code forge + another server at some clearnet domain proxying it (until taken down and replaced with the new one) would probably work fine. The hidden service can even terminate TLS with a valid cert for the clearnet domain.
    - toomuchtodo 1mo ago
      True, I suggested IPFS as an hidden content addressable, globally distributed caching proxy and persistent object store. Run it from outside the reach of the US legal framework, like private/shadow libraries/archives (as you could consider it an archive of X, with public access when available). Another idea I recently had was extending Karakeep (https://github.com/karakeep-app/ https://github.com/karakeep-app/), which has robust archiving capabilities today, to enable announcing archived URLs via a DHT and serving the archive bundle as a torrent (similar to how the Internet Archive creates a torrent file for each item). With some work, it would be the equivalent of a distributed Wayback Machine, with each instance able to act as both scraper and server. With a browser extension that could query this DHT, you could retrieve an archived version of any URL that has been archived by cherry picking from the swarm (each URL becomes a magnet torrent URL, very similar to IPFS, but with less bootstrapping required imho). Distributed web adjacent (https://getdweb.net/ https://getdweb.net/).

Kim_Bruning 1mo ago

For HN, does that mean we should no longer be using X links, since most can't view them?

moritzwarhier 1mo ago
Content from X worth sharing is rare anyway. I'm not any authority here, but I'd say, there's no need for a Reddit-moment to ban it entirely. Though it wouldn't bother me either. Directly linked single text posts are still publicly accessible last I checked, but it's a microblogging platform littered with spam. HN submissions are usually long-form content, so it's rare to see X links anyway. And comments obey the voting system, so who cares whether people link to X, LinkedIn, Facebook or whatever else. Banning X in comments would require to ban the others as well, and I think the mods and users can handle by themselves what is relevant in that case. And in case an X submission is genuinely interesting, it won't be hard to access or infer the content from the comments or other sources.
- angoragoats 1mo ago
  > HN submissions are usually long-form content, so it's rare to see X links anyway. There are, at minimum, tens of Twitter links that I see daily which make it to the first couple of pages of the site. A lot of them are AI-related content, which seems to be popular there. > And in case an X submission is genuinely interesting, it won't be hard to access or infer the content from the comments or other sources. I don’t want to have to do this. I think we should just disallow Twitter links for posts.
ElijahLynn 1mo ago
Same category and policy as paywalled news sites.
- angoragoats 1mo ago
  No, it’s not anymore, since the HN FAQ[0] specifically states: “It's ok to post stories from sites with paywalls that have workarounds.“ There don’t appear to be workarounds for Twitter anymore. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html

dredmorbius 1mo ago

I've emailed HN's mods requesting Twitter/X links be site-banned as hard-paywalled, given that Nitter and XCancel had also just received C&Ds (<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49437283 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49437283>).

Wowfunhappy 1mo ago
I too dislike logging into Twitter/X, but that's not a paywall, the accounts are still free, no?
- Daunk 1mo ago
  Is anything really "free"?
- urbnspacecowboy 1mo ago
  Not good enough. Creating an account still leads to the "Your account was suspended for reasons, now you gotta dox yourself" dance. See previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49442907 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49442907
Cider9986 1mo ago
It can still by bypassed with working nitter instances. Nitter doesn't have to be legal. Archive.today certainly isn't.

spiderfarmer 1mo ago

X usage is declining and somebody is desperate to get some metrics up. https://trends.google.com/explore?q=%2Fm%2F0289n8t&date=today%205-y&geo=Worldwide https://trends.google.com/explore?q=%2Fm%2F0289n8t&date=toda...

ValentineC 1mo ago
All the AI sheep are still using it, just like the webdev sheep before that.