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This. I'm appalled that there still seems to be the need to find _evidence_ for this.

by wwwald 1mo ago

poidos 1mo ago
There isn't, right? Their gameplan is to state a need for evidence to delay, delay, delay while they and their backers enrich themselves at the cost of everyone else.
kuerbel 1mo ago
Those people are not convinced by evidence.
- criddell 1mo ago
  Which is why it's a bummer that the last good communicator on the topic was probably Al Gore. Lots of great science that I'm happy to see done, but there's nobody out there doing a very good job of making people care.
  - breakyerself 1mo ago
    I think Al Gore did more harm than good. He made himself the face of global warming and it helped spark a partisan backlash. There was a time when Republicans were not particularly skeptical of global warming. That shifted as climate change and Al Gore became more and more synonymous in the public consciousness.
    - criddell 1mo ago
      I thought Gore's road show was pretty good. It certainly changed how I thought about climate change, but I can understand your argument. Probably the last person who was able to effect big positive change was Nixon.
    - Daishiman 1mo ago
      Is that Al Gore's responsibility or is the Republican's responsibility of their policies being basically "anything that Democrats do is bad and therefore we oppose it"?
      - breakyerself 27d ago
        I don't think it's his responsibility, but that was the outcome. I would say most of the responsibility lies with the fossil fuel industry and their PR agencies who funded propaganda that took advantage of the situation.
olalonde 1mo ago
[flagged]
- deleted 1mo ago
  [deleted]
- cowsup 1mo ago
  The very first graph you cited shows that we've had such a low number of natural disasters in the 21st century outside of Earthquakes, and now we're starting to tick back up with non-Earthquake deaths. You would think, with all of the advancements in medicine, technology, and infrastructure, we'd be continuing to see improvements. Instead, it's ticking back up. Why do you think that is?
  - olalonde 1mo ago
    That's not what I'm seeing from the first graph. If there's any trend, it's towards fewer climate deaths. This is well documented mainstream science. Also, not sure why my comment was flagged...
- pfdietz 1mo ago
  There's evidence we're driving toward that brick wall at 100 mph, but there's no evidence we've hit the wall yet, so we don't need to do anything? The objections to climate change are transparently ideological. Admitting it is real is admitting certain ideologies are flawed, and people like you would rather deny reality than abandon their parasitic memes.
  - olalonde 1mo ago
    You could say that about any doomsday prediction. What concrete evidence is there that a "brick wall" is actually imminent? The first ~1.4C of warming coincided with the greatest surge in human development, poverty reduction, and technological progress in history. For most of it, we didn't even realize the climate was warming... To me, this suggests that economic development massively outweighed any negative impact that warming might have caused. I don't object to climate change. I object to the idea that the current moderate warming is catastrophic. It's not an ideological position, other than placing a high value on human progress. I'm also not saying we shouldn't do anything about it. I just don't think we should do anything about it that would significantly hamper economic development. Fossil fuels are on their way out anyways, in large part due to economic development and economic forces.

This. I'm appalled that there still seems to be the need to find _evidence_ for this.

by wwwald 1mo ago

This. I'm appalled that there still seems to be the need to find _evidence_ for this.

There isn't, right? Their gameplan is to state a need for evidence to delay, delay, delay while they and their backers enrich themselves at the cost of everyone else.

kuerbel 1mo ago

Those people are not convinced by evidence.

criddell 1mo ago
Which is why it's a bummer that the last good communicator on the topic was probably Al Gore. Lots of great science that I'm happy to see done, but there's nobody out there doing a very good job of making people care.
- breakyerself 1mo ago
  I think Al Gore did more harm than good. He made himself the face of global warming and it helped spark a partisan backlash. There was a time when Republicans were not particularly skeptical of global warming. That shifted as climate change and Al Gore became more and more synonymous in the public consciousness.
  - criddell 1mo ago
    I thought Gore's road show was pretty good. It certainly changed how I thought about climate change, but I can understand your argument. Probably the last person who was able to effect big positive change was Nixon.
  - Daishiman 1mo ago
    Is that Al Gore's responsibility or is the Republican's responsibility of their policies being basically "anything that Democrats do is bad and therefore we oppose it"?
    - breakyerself 27d ago
      I don't think it's his responsibility, but that was the outcome. I would say most of the responsibility lies with the fossil fuel industry and their PR agencies who funded propaganda that took advantage of the situation.

olalonde 1mo ago

[flagged]

deleted 1mo ago
[deleted]
cowsup 1mo ago
The very first graph you cited shows that we've had such a low number of natural disasters in the 21st century outside of Earthquakes, and now we're starting to tick back up with non-Earthquake deaths. You would think, with all of the advancements in medicine, technology, and infrastructure, we'd be continuing to see improvements. Instead, it's ticking back up. Why do you think that is?
- olalonde 1mo ago
  That's not what I'm seeing from the first graph. If there's any trend, it's towards fewer climate deaths. This is well documented mainstream science. Also, not sure why my comment was flagged...
pfdietz 1mo ago
There's evidence we're driving toward that brick wall at 100 mph, but there's no evidence we've hit the wall yet, so we don't need to do anything? The objections to climate change are transparently ideological. Admitting it is real is admitting certain ideologies are flawed, and people like you would rather deny reality than abandon their parasitic memes.
- olalonde 1mo ago
  You could say that about any doomsday prediction. What concrete evidence is there that a "brick wall" is actually imminent? The first ~1.4C of warming coincided with the greatest surge in human development, poverty reduction, and technological progress in history. For most of it, we didn't even realize the climate was warming... To me, this suggests that economic development massively outweighed any negative impact that warming might have caused. I don't object to climate change. I object to the idea that the current moderate warming is catastrophic. It's not an ideological position, other than placing a high value on human progress. I'm also not saying we shouldn't do anything about it. I just don't think we should do anything about it that would significantly hamper economic development. Fossil fuels are on their way out anyways, in large part due to economic development and economic forces.