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The Dutch are filling gas wells with cement
- ppasotti 1mo agoThis article is so biased I can't even.
- nephihaha 1mo agoIs this to try and prevent subsidence and tremors? It would make sense in a country which is often beneath sea level.
- boesboes 1mo agoI thought it was mostly to demonstrate that they are REALLY never to be reopened, after many years of your typical lies and empty promises from politician.
- pjc50 1mo agoIt's specifically to prevent the wells being re-opened and thereby raise the cost of re-exploiting the field. Of course, it would always be possible to drill new wells.
- CalRobert 1mo ago"The government is demolishing the wells to prevent a future government from reconsidering its decision to stop producing gas." As well they should. This country should be electrifying much, much faster. A place literally below sea level is more invested in stopping climate breakdown than most. Sadly the way they're going about it is really a bad hack, and encourages prolonged gas dependency by subsidizing "hybrid" heat pumps (that still require a gas boiler). I installed heat pumps last spring and it is frustrating that they didn't qualify for any subsidy because they also happen to be air conditioning. And while I might have been able to get a subsidy for an induction hob, there wasn't much point because the one I got for <€200 has been great, and plugged in to a normal outlet. The only trade off is that I can't run all the burners on max power at the same time, and boiling water is _slightly_ slower then when I had a 6kw one. Hot water is still an issue though. Heat Pump water heaters seem almost unheard of, and I also worry that if I rip out the radiators and the legacy CV Ketel (which I both hate) then it would affect insurability and resale.
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- eecc 1mo agoDon’t expect anything to be decided by this cabinet. Springtime elections are pretty certain IMHO
- CalRobert 1mo agoHopefully we get much better renewables support (and with it lower public transit fares...), fixes for the insane box 3 rules due to come in to effect, yimby reforms to let people actually build homes in cities, and the right to air conditioning enshrined in law...
- eknkc 1mo ago> As well they should. Assuming there is no pressing reason and the wells are dormant, why would it be a good idea to destroy options? I did not fact check these claims though. Maybe there are other reasons to close them. But if it is solely do remove them from equation altogether, it is stupid.
- jaggederest 1mo agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precommitment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precommitment
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- pjc50 1mo ago> Rather than buy off the Groningers, the cabinet decided to give in to them This doesn't seem to have been tried. We have similar conversations about e.g. pylons for renewable infrastructure and, at even more heightened levels, data centers. It doesn't seem that bribing people to shut up - sorry, sharing the widespread economic benefits of a decision with those most affected - is on the table at all.
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- deugtniet 1mo agoThe writer of this hasn't even talked to any of the local population who have been subjected to these earthquakes that destroys the local populations' houses. Historically, the Dutch government has done extremely little to compensate the Groningers' damage. The Dutch are considered a bad example with regards to how the government is handling the proceeds of fossil fuels. So subjecting anyone to another round of house-destroying earthquakes is surely going to be well compensated this time. /s
- dismalpedigree 1mo ago[flagged]
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- apexalpha 1mo agoAs a Dutch person I can confirm this article is: 1) Roughly correct chronologically. 2) COMPLETELY devoid of the actual political reasons behind this being done.
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- _joel 1mo agoWhich are? (Brit here asking though curiosity)
- apexalpha 1mo agoSince you're British just imagine finding gas in Northern Scotland (on land, not on sea!) but control over it is in London. Imagine how that would roughly unfold over a period of 70 years. Sorry, I'm on mobile and it's a complex issue. This covers a lot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groningen_gas_field#Phasing_out_gas_production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groningen_gas_field#Phasing_ou...
- serial_dev 1mo agoThen, please, tell us what you think the political reasons are behind this being done??
- contravariant 1mo agoIf the local population saw more of the economic benefits, was taken more seriously when they complained about earth quake risk, and was compensated more readily when the earth quakes resulted in actual damage, then maybe they would have been more willing to allow the gas fields to exist as a strategic reserve. As it stands the local population has little more to show for it than demolished homes and damaged monuments and having an economic disease named after them.
- wjnc 1mo ago
- lukeify 1mo ago> Destroying the wells does not change the likelihood of additional earthquakes. Well, it does, because it reduces the chance of additional gas extraction in those areas—which was the goal of filling them with cement.
- csomar 1mo ago> The remaining reserves, some 500 billion cubic metres, are worth around €200 billion at current wholesale prices – enough to pay every single resident of the province €150,000 as compensation and still have 110 billion euros. So... not enough to buy them homes in Amsterdam and move their factories/schools/jobs? Good thing the citizens fought this. The activity is not economical without seriously endangering your home. I'd bet that if you were willing to give them a good enough deal, most/many people will take it. But there is no good deal here. It's just a collection of wealth (gas) at the expense of the Groningeniens.
- psychoslave 1mo ago€150,000 as compensation seems damn low if the biggest investment of median citizen is paying for a house taking far more than that. Still a waste of resources to sabotage pipes that could just as well serve other purposes.
- elric 1mo agoWithout knowing anything about these gas wells, couldn't they be used for compressed air energy storage?
- pjc50 1mo agoWell, the reservoirs are still full of gas. CAES is I think now no longer competitive with batteries, which are a much simpler setup and being widely, quietly, deployed.
- mahrain 1mo agoThis was done for mostly ideological reasons, "green transition" and such. The Dutch economy was dependent on natural gas sales for funding parts of the welfare state. They became a net importer of natural gas and then Ukraine and Iran made the gas prices spike. So the Dutch government is now struggling to fill the natural gas store for household heating and cooking applications for the coming winter season, while also incurring these high costs. The impact hasn't fully played out or understood.
- teekert 1mo agoThe impact for me is double gas prices compared to a couple of years ago. About 300€ a month, year round.
- wjnc 1mo agoBut be fair with us: are you holding back on investing in other forms of heating due to non-financial reasons? (I am. We use a bit less gas than you, but I am looking for another house and unwilling to transition even though I can afford it and it seems profitable.)
- teekert 1mo agoCurrently I can't afford it tbh (it's like a couple of 1000 and only makes sense with solar panels?), but that may change soon. Still I wonder if it is cheaper? Electricity in winter is still very expensive and soon generated solar power is near worthless and we can't store it for the winter. I admit I still have to do the exact math (for which I am in a good position with years worth of Home Assistant data). If I had money to spare I'd be more idealistic about it really, also because I have a solar-panels + home battery shaped hole in my HA dashboard that hurts me ;)
- 28304283409234 1mo agoWhile everyone knows that welfare state should be dependent on taxing the absurdly rich instead of on gas sales.
- phyzix5761 1mo agoDidn't the decisions of past generations lead us to the climate issues we have today? Won't future generations also say the same about our decisions? Why permanently destroy assets that future generations could potentially use when they discover how to make it more environmentally friendly? Seems very shortsighted to me; like we know better than anyone else and our views will never be questioned.
- aaron695 1mo ago[dead]
- Aquitard 1mo ago> destroying them doesn't do anything for safety or the environment. This is correct because cement is not an adequate plug for well decomissioning. Cement cracks and erodes due to groundwater aggressivity, heat stress and other stresses. Over time will lead to leakages. A better alternative would be expansive clays like bentonite but a far more costlier exercise.
- Leonard_of_Q 1mo agoAt the same time the Dutch gas reserves are at a historic low (current somewhere around 44% of capacity) and are not expected to be filled to capacity before winter comes. It is to be hoped this will be a mild winter or prices - already high - will go through the roof. Here's an idea for those subsiding gas wells: pump in CO2 on one side, out CH4 the other. That way the pressure is kept up and there should be fewer problems with earthquakes. Someone probably thought of this and decided it wasn't feasible or did not fit the agenda of phasing out fossil fuels like natural gas.
- tosti 1mo agoI'm sure that'll work with gases
- claudiosf1 1mo agoHonestly, “The earthquakes they experienced so far weren’t bad enough” doesn’t sound like a good argument for “let’s keep pumping”. All it takes to make this not worth it is a single bad one.
- skylurk 1mo agoIt's not just earthquakes, the area is literally sinking below sea level. https://piahs.copernicus.org/articles/372/367/2015/piahs-372-367-2015.pdf https://piahs.copernicus.org/articles/372/367/2015/piahs-372...
- bartkappenburg 1mo ago"It would be good for the current Dutch government to prioritize the interests of the Netherlands and Europe over that of Groningen" I mean, what the actual f*ck. I LIVE in Groningen and see the results of endless money grabbing of selling the gas of the past decades every day (Shell & the government). People stressed out, thousands of homes that are unsafe, people living in temporary housing for years. He compares italian earthquakes with ours (we had one last week). This comparison is so wrong on so many levels. First: these ones here a man induced, which is a different category. Second: the soil here is so much different than in Italy, a earthquake with the same force (richter) has a whole different outcome. My house has (minor) damage as well, I'm compensated for fixing it and I'm happy with the way the government handled it. But this piece of a BS blog and the conclusion are infuriating. Did the writer even try to speak to anyone living in this region? Or did he just draw some conclusions based behind his desk that's (safely) located in the US?
- yread 1mo agoPeople are also stressed because of high gas prices, cold swimming pools and offices (19 degrees), industries closing down (chemical sector declined 20% 2022-2023). And not just in Netherlands either
- dragonelite 1mo agoThis is so funny my own government shoots itself economically in it's foot. Then they love to complain about unfair disadvantage of other countries especially a very big Asian country. When the economic competition from Asia becomes to much to handle. You just have to laugh or else you would cry..
- hommelix 1mo agoSuch a shame ! The Netherlands could have followed Norway and store CO2. The CO2 will be useful carrier for hydrogen, to build methanol out of the electrolysers installed in Groningen. Liquid energy carrier are useful because they are easier to handle than gaseous or liquid (cryo-cooled) hydrogen, for application like ocean going vessel.
- josefritzishere 1mo agoPlugging wells is a reasonable safety measure. The U.S. is full of leaking wells causing serious air pollution issues.