5 ms·

Genuine question, what is it you don't like about Mamdani? I don't live in NYC, so I don't have first-hand experience with him, but I've not seen many complaint

Genuine question, what is it you don't like about Mamdani? I don't live in NYC, so I don't have first-hand experience with him, but I've not seen many complaints about him (other than things like "he broke the dress code at the swimming pool that one time", which is "Obama's tan suit" levels of petty)

piker 1mo ago
His policies are socialist. Some of us still perceive that as a bad thing.
- voidUpdate 1mo ago
  I mean, as far as I'm aware, "socialism" just means that the means of production are owned socially, instead of privately. But is there anything that he's actually done that is disagreeable, or is it just that many news outlets are saying "socialism = bad, Mamdani is socialist, therefore Mamdani = bad"?
  - mercutio2 1mo ago
    “Just” is doing a lot of work in your argument. The government grocery store tender is filled with exceptionally bad ideas. When he’s a normal politician doing normal things, he seems great. When he’s sticking to his guns on naive populist things he’s part of a worrying affection for counterproductive government programs.
    - grackasthebig 1mo ago
      Yeah but under the norm none of us owe you anything including food or healthcare; that is... we don't have to care you exist Why volunteer such? Under capitalism there is no honorific obligationism. Pay me to give a shit you exist or go hungry and die What's that? You want a social and communal society? Sounds like naive populism.
      - WarmWash 1mo ago
        >Pay me to give a shit you exist or go hungry and die Socialism has the same problem, except it's "go to work and give a shit for less money or all of society dies"
        inigyou 1mo ago
        Isn't that a description of capitalism?
        grackasthebig 1mo ago
        Almost like the philosophy is meaningless and its innate human condition to exploit the power a philosophy defines
    - ambicapter 1mo ago
      > filled with exceptionally bad ideas. Name one, just for discussion's sake.
      - Obscurity4340 1mo ago
        Its probably socialist to expect a rando on the internet to support their nonsense with evidence, have you even paid the man to support/substantiate his shitposting?
  - mikaeluman 1mo ago
    Take the case of "city owned stores" to "combat food price inflation". Well. The city does not actually produce food. Stores get their produce from wholesalers. This is where the "city stores" will get them as well. Only now, regular stores know the city will undercut them in price using taxpayer money. So any location next to a city store will become poison. And soon all you will have (for some people) are the city stores. Of course, with prices much cheaper than in other parts, you will likely get crowding at these stores. Leading to the infamous bread lines of the Soviet Union or Venezuela or what have you. Basically, if something is cheaper than the market price, you get shortages. Ironically, the city sets prices based on a relative level to "normal stores". So it's not as if this is some "good capitalist competition". It's not as if it's a "temporary measure until catastrophe A is over". There is put simply no way this experiment ends in a way that is positive for New Yorkers. And yes, this is socialism and there are very logical, rational economic reasons for why it always fail. This will be no different.
    - empath75 1mo ago
      I agree with everything you said, but I think it's also a fairly low stakes experiment that might even be worth trying, and the real test of his competence as mayor is how quickly he realizes it that it won't work and shuts it down, rather than doubling or tripling down on it. Sometimes it's worth it to just take your best shot at implementing a probably bad but popular idea, as long as the consequences for failure are not too harsh. There's a version of this, I think, that _doesn't_ fail, where they give up selling below cost and focus on setting up ABC-like grocery stores in "food deserts" that sell staple goods that bodegas don't carry.
    - derektank 1mo ago
      I agree with everything you said, but is worth mentioning that while, “There is put simply no way this experiment ends in a way that is positive for New Yorkers,” is true, the most likely outcome is that (a) the stores will open and consistently lose a small amount of money, relative to the NYC budget, (b) some small grocers or bodegas will be either priced out or receive city subsidies which incur another small cost on the city’s budget, and (c) customers will experience some kind of annoying quota or identity check system which prevents aggressive arbitrage, but which ultimately doesn’t make the stores unbearable. This will indeed be far from Pareto optimal, and a slow drain on the city’s budget and local economy, but could be successful enough that the stores can remain in operation in perpetuity, which boosters will frame as a “win”
- satvikpendem 1mo ago
  Socialism is workers seizing the means of production. No country is actually socialist at all, as in that case it means every single company is actually a coop of equal shares among the workers. Socialism does not mean when the government does something, at best that's social democracy.
  - dgb23 1mo ago
    That's one (Marxist) definition of it, but the movement is much broader and more varied than that.
    - satvikpendem 1mo ago
      What else could it mean? There are anarcho- and democratic socialists, sure, but their end goal is still workers owning the means of production.
  - ricoxicano 1mo ago
    [dead]
- LastTrain 1mo ago
  Socialism is a continuum that the US has been on to some degree since its inception, it isn't a case of Capitalism good, socialism bad. Here's how I envy you: the people you have policy disagreements with will engage on those in good faith. I wish the opposite were true.
  - qingcharles 1mo ago
    All these anti-socialists never questions who pays for their roads, their schools, their police, their fire service, the military, the FAA, the USPS, their libraries, their parks, the courts, NASA? Are all of these right-wing people paying privately for those?
    - LastTrain 1mo ago
      Don't get me wrong I think it is fine to question who pays for those things. And if you are one of those "I lean libertarian" types you probably are OK with private funding for NASA & USPS, but they need to be intellectually honest with why they are OK with masked federal agents roaming the streets.
  - throwaway12053 1mo ago
    It seems to me that what is "socialism" is just based on politicians personal definitions. Basic education for the people = good Higher education for the people = socialism Bail outs and subsidies for businesses = good Safety net for individuals = socialism Public highway = good Public railroad = socialism
- pjc50 1mo ago
  I think the endless labelling of everything rightwingers don't like as "socialism" has backfired. A generation has been told that affordable food and housing, usable public transport, healthcare, not getting shot at school, not getting racially abused etc. are "socialism". So obviously they want to have some of this "socialism" as soon as possible.
  - jrrv 1mo ago
    Socialism is when the government does stuff, it would seem.
    - weakfish 1mo ago
      Context for the unfamiliar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgiC8YfytDw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgiC8YfytDw (The guy is joking in the video)
  - zaphar 1mo ago
    To be fair Mamdani has stated that he is a "socialist" numerous times. So I don't think that the characterization is wrong necessarily.
    - TimorousBestie 1mo ago
      He identifies as a socialist, sure, but his implemented policies (what GGP was calling socialist) are mostly standard-issue municipal management. Is it socialism to hire temporary labor for snow removal? To fix potholes? My boring municipality in the middle of a red state does that and nobody calls it socialist.
      - pyrale 1mo ago
        > My boring municipality in the middle of a red state does that and nobody calls it socialist. I will never not be amazed at the US meaning of "red state" vs. what the rest of the world means by "red state".
      - 1mo ago
- catlover76 1mo ago
  > His policies are socialist. Depends on how one defines "socialist" > Some of us still perceive that as a bad thing. Then what's wrong with you? Look at other first world countries. All this "socialism bad" bullshit needs to stop. It has no basis in reality.
  - piker 1mo ago
    > It has no basis in reality. It has some basis, perhaps consider: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1930%E2%80%931933 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1930%E2%80%93... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990s_North_Korean_famine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990s_North_Korean_famine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derg
    - api 1mo ago
      That’s totalitarian communism. Parent is talking about social democracy with a larger safety net. I’m not aware of gulags in the Netherlands or Sweden but maybe I haven’t looked hard enough. I was just in here a while ago calling leftist class war stuff conspiracism BTW, so I’m equal opportunity. Just so much bullshit everywhere. We’d have a much better discourse if words meant things and if we could toss the hyperbole and the conspiracy theories from all sides.
      - piker 1mo ago
        I agree, and I am also a centrist, but to say “socialism bad” has “no basis in reality” is wrong.
        catlover76 1mo ago
        [dead]
    - 1mo ago
- indianwashlets 1mo ago
  [flagged]
- nickv 1mo ago
  This is an unhelpful comment. What socialist policies has he enacted? (I live here btw)
  - inigyou 1mo ago
    Well he's the government and he did stuff, and socialism is when the government does stuff, so he's socialist.
    - piker 1mo ago
      I’m sorry this makes no sense. He’s creating city owned grocery stores. I’m not just making up some slanderous label. That’s a socialist idea if ever there was one, good as it may be!
      - deleted 1mo ago
        [deleted]
SV_BubbleTime 1mo ago
[flagged]
- inigyou 1mo ago
  Saved you a Bing: "Taqiyya is the act of concealing one's religious beliefs and practices when faced with persecution or threat." So basically this commenter is projecting, because that is all that far right people do, calling themselves "libertarians" or "free speech supporters" or "apolitical" etc.
  - SV_BubbleTime 1mo ago
    The correct description is that under taqiyya, Muslims can, do, are expected to, and celebrate outright lying about their intentions and goals if it furthers the spreading of Islam. It’s literally in the book, there are no moderate versions of the book. You can be mad, you can think I’m lying, but it’s right there. Lol, when I first got to my first Islamic country, it was explained to me as a nice outreach program, that prayer song was broadcast as loud as possible for Fun Hey Look At Us Talk To God announcement. A year later that guy talked to me more honestly and told me it was taqiyya to lie about taqiyya, smiling ear to ear.
    - inigyou 1mo ago
      Is it possible that you are lying about your intentions and goals right now?
      - SV_BubbleTime 1mo ago
        Don’t take my word for it. You could do even the slightest bit of research about the noble and righteousness of lying under the cover of taqiyya, or, go spend some time in Islamic countries. I’m sorry, I’m too pro-women’s and gay rights to get mixed up supporting people who want nothing less than those two things. Classic ideologue though, attack the messenger while avoiding the topic as hard as possible.
- 1mo ago
uyiuip 1mo ago
[dead]
br0ceph 1mo ago
[flagged]

piker 1mo ago

His policies are socialist. Some of us still perceive that as a bad thing.

voidUpdate 1mo ago
I mean, as far as I'm aware, "socialism" just means that the means of production are owned socially, instead of privately. But is there anything that he's actually done that is disagreeable, or is it just that many news outlets are saying "socialism = bad, Mamdani is socialist, therefore Mamdani = bad"?
- mercutio2 1mo ago
  “Just” is doing a lot of work in your argument. The government grocery store tender is filled with exceptionally bad ideas. When he’s a normal politician doing normal things, he seems great. When he’s sticking to his guns on naive populist things he’s part of a worrying affection for counterproductive government programs.
  - grackasthebig 1mo ago
    Yeah but under the norm none of us owe you anything including food or healthcare; that is... we don't have to care you exist Why volunteer such? Under capitalism there is no honorific obligationism. Pay me to give a shit you exist or go hungry and die What's that? You want a social and communal society? Sounds like naive populism.
    - WarmWash 1mo ago
      >Pay me to give a shit you exist or go hungry and die Socialism has the same problem, except it's "go to work and give a shit for less money or all of society dies"
      - inigyou 1mo ago
        Isn't that a description of capitalism?
        grackasthebig 1mo ago
        Almost like the philosophy is meaningless and its innate human condition to exploit the power a philosophy defines
  - ambicapter 1mo ago
    > filled with exceptionally bad ideas. Name one, just for discussion's sake.
    - Obscurity4340 1mo ago
      Its probably socialist to expect a rando on the internet to support their nonsense with evidence, have you even paid the man to support/substantiate his shitposting?
- mikaeluman 1mo ago
  Take the case of "city owned stores" to "combat food price inflation". Well. The city does not actually produce food. Stores get their produce from wholesalers. This is where the "city stores" will get them as well. Only now, regular stores know the city will undercut them in price using taxpayer money. So any location next to a city store will become poison. And soon all you will have (for some people) are the city stores. Of course, with prices much cheaper than in other parts, you will likely get crowding at these stores. Leading to the infamous bread lines of the Soviet Union or Venezuela or what have you. Basically, if something is cheaper than the market price, you get shortages. Ironically, the city sets prices based on a relative level to "normal stores". So it's not as if this is some "good capitalist competition". It's not as if it's a "temporary measure until catastrophe A is over". There is put simply no way this experiment ends in a way that is positive for New Yorkers. And yes, this is socialism and there are very logical, rational economic reasons for why it always fail. This will be no different.
  - empath75 1mo ago
    I agree with everything you said, but I think it's also a fairly low stakes experiment that might even be worth trying, and the real test of his competence as mayor is how quickly he realizes it that it won't work and shuts it down, rather than doubling or tripling down on it. Sometimes it's worth it to just take your best shot at implementing a probably bad but popular idea, as long as the consequences for failure are not too harsh. There's a version of this, I think, that _doesn't_ fail, where they give up selling below cost and focus on setting up ABC-like grocery stores in "food deserts" that sell staple goods that bodegas don't carry.
  - derektank 1mo ago
    I agree with everything you said, but is worth mentioning that while, “There is put simply no way this experiment ends in a way that is positive for New Yorkers,” is true, the most likely outcome is that (a) the stores will open and consistently lose a small amount of money, relative to the NYC budget, (b) some small grocers or bodegas will be either priced out or receive city subsidies which incur another small cost on the city’s budget, and (c) customers will experience some kind of annoying quota or identity check system which prevents aggressive arbitrage, but which ultimately doesn’t make the stores unbearable. This will indeed be far from Pareto optimal, and a slow drain on the city’s budget and local economy, but could be successful enough that the stores can remain in operation in perpetuity, which boosters will frame as a “win”
satvikpendem 1mo ago
Socialism is workers seizing the means of production. No country is actually socialist at all, as in that case it means every single company is actually a coop of equal shares among the workers. Socialism does not mean when the government does something, at best that's social democracy.
- dgb23 1mo ago
  That's one (Marxist) definition of it, but the movement is much broader and more varied than that.
  - satvikpendem 1mo ago
    What else could it mean? There are anarcho- and democratic socialists, sure, but their end goal is still workers owning the means of production.
- ricoxicano 1mo ago
  [dead]
LastTrain 1mo ago
Socialism is a continuum that the US has been on to some degree since its inception, it isn't a case of Capitalism good, socialism bad. Here's how I envy you: the people you have policy disagreements with will engage on those in good faith. I wish the opposite were true.
- qingcharles 1mo ago
  All these anti-socialists never questions who pays for their roads, their schools, their police, their fire service, the military, the FAA, the USPS, their libraries, their parks, the courts, NASA? Are all of these right-wing people paying privately for those?
  - LastTrain 1mo ago
    Don't get me wrong I think it is fine to question who pays for those things. And if you are one of those "I lean libertarian" types you probably are OK with private funding for NASA & USPS, but they need to be intellectually honest with why they are OK with masked federal agents roaming the streets.
- throwaway12053 1mo ago
  It seems to me that what is "socialism" is just based on politicians personal definitions. Basic education for the people = good Higher education for the people = socialism Bail outs and subsidies for businesses = good Safety net for individuals = socialism Public highway = good Public railroad = socialism
pjc50 1mo ago
I think the endless labelling of everything rightwingers don't like as "socialism" has backfired. A generation has been told that affordable food and housing, usable public transport, healthcare, not getting shot at school, not getting racially abused etc. are "socialism". So obviously they want to have some of this "socialism" as soon as possible.
- jrrv 1mo ago
  Socialism is when the government does stuff, it would seem.
  - weakfish 1mo ago
    Context for the unfamiliar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgiC8YfytDw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgiC8YfytDw (The guy is joking in the video)
- zaphar 1mo ago
  To be fair Mamdani has stated that he is a "socialist" numerous times. So I don't think that the characterization is wrong necessarily.
  - TimorousBestie 1mo ago
    He identifies as a socialist, sure, but his implemented policies (what GGP was calling socialist) are mostly standard-issue municipal management. Is it socialism to hire temporary labor for snow removal? To fix potholes? My boring municipality in the middle of a red state does that and nobody calls it socialist.
    - pyrale 1mo ago
      > My boring municipality in the middle of a red state does that and nobody calls it socialist. I will never not be amazed at the US meaning of "red state" vs. what the rest of the world means by "red state".
    - 1mo ago
catlover76 1mo ago
> His policies are socialist. Depends on how one defines "socialist" > Some of us still perceive that as a bad thing. Then what's wrong with you? Look at other first world countries. All this "socialism bad" bullshit needs to stop. It has no basis in reality.
- piker 1mo ago
  > It has no basis in reality. It has some basis, perhaps consider: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1930%E2%80%931933 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1930%E2%80%93... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990s_North_Korean_famine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990s_North_Korean_famine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derg
  - api 1mo ago
    That’s totalitarian communism. Parent is talking about social democracy with a larger safety net. I’m not aware of gulags in the Netherlands or Sweden but maybe I haven’t looked hard enough. I was just in here a while ago calling leftist class war stuff conspiracism BTW, so I’m equal opportunity. Just so much bullshit everywhere. We’d have a much better discourse if words meant things and if we could toss the hyperbole and the conspiracy theories from all sides.
    - piker 1mo ago
      I agree, and I am also a centrist, but to say “socialism bad” has “no basis in reality” is wrong.
      - catlover76 1mo ago
        [dead]
  - 1mo ago
indianwashlets 1mo ago
[flagged]
nickv 1mo ago
This is an unhelpful comment. What socialist policies has he enacted? (I live here btw)
- inigyou 1mo ago
  Well he's the government and he did stuff, and socialism is when the government does stuff, so he's socialist.
  - piker 1mo ago
    I’m sorry this makes no sense. He’s creating city owned grocery stores. I’m not just making up some slanderous label. That’s a socialist idea if ever there was one, good as it may be!
    - deleted 1mo ago
      [deleted]

SV_BubbleTime 1mo ago

[flagged]

inigyou 1mo ago
Saved you a Bing: "Taqiyya is the act of concealing one's religious beliefs and practices when faced with persecution or threat." So basically this commenter is projecting, because that is all that far right people do, calling themselves "libertarians" or "free speech supporters" or "apolitical" etc.
- SV_BubbleTime 1mo ago
  The correct description is that under taqiyya, Muslims can, do, are expected to, and celebrate outright lying about their intentions and goals if it furthers the spreading of Islam. It’s literally in the book, there are no moderate versions of the book. You can be mad, you can think I’m lying, but it’s right there. Lol, when I first got to my first Islamic country, it was explained to me as a nice outreach program, that prayer song was broadcast as loud as possible for Fun Hey Look At Us Talk To God announcement. A year later that guy talked to me more honestly and told me it was taqiyya to lie about taqiyya, smiling ear to ear.
  - inigyou 1mo ago
    Is it possible that you are lying about your intentions and goals right now?
    - SV_BubbleTime 1mo ago
      Don’t take my word for it. You could do even the slightest bit of research about the noble and righteousness of lying under the cover of taqiyya, or, go spend some time in Islamic countries. I’m sorry, I’m too pro-women’s and gay rights to get mixed up supporting people who want nothing less than those two things. Classic ideologue though, attack the messenger while avoiding the topic as hard as possible.
1mo ago

uyiuip 1mo ago

[dead]

br0ceph 1mo ago

[flagged]