7 ms·

An immigrant who has followed due process is equivalent to a homeless person who has convinced the property owner to willingly let the homeless person stay in t

An immigrant who has followed due process is equivalent to a homeless person who has convinced the property owner to willingly let the homeless person stay in the property owner's living room. The property owner is allowed to change their mind about the arrangement at any point, unless and until the person obtains part ownership of the property (citizenship).

ImPostingOnHN 1mo ago
The property owner in this case is the American people, who I'm pretty sure don't support this. They may have hired a property manager, but if the manager goes rogue, what the owners say is more important.
- 0xDEAFBEAD 1mo ago
  OK but that's a much different argument from "the cruelty is the point".
  - ImPostingOnHN 1mo ago
    The legal perspective doesn't preclude that the cruelty is the point.
    - 0xDEAFBEAD 1mo ago
      Consider the possibility that people might simply have different views from you.
      - ImPostingOnHN 1mo ago
        You're right, that is always a possibility for any random thing. Okay, done. Now you do the same.
        0xDEAFBEAD 29d ago
        I'm looking for the view you guys have beneath all the performative outrage and I haven't been able to discover it yet. For example, this user wasn't able to explain why foreigners shouldn't vote in US elections: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49465747 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49465747
        ImPostingOnHN 28d ago
        I think you responded to the wrong post. Try going to your link to respond to a post about your link. Back to this topic: have you yet considered the possibility that people might simply have different views from you on what constitutes unreasonable cruelty? Doing that consideration yourself might help you understand why people do not agree with you, or take seriously your performative outrage on the matter.
Erem 1mo ago
This is a vile analogy, whose implication so twists the American tradition that I blush with shame to read it from a possible countryman. What American tradition? I'll let Lincoln speak, since you have already given voice to his opposition. "As a nation, we began by declaring that 'all men are created equal.' We now practically read it 'all men are created equal, except negroes.' When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy."
- 0xDEAFBEAD 1mo ago
  If "all men are created equal" applies to foreign citizens, why not just go all the way and let them vote in US elections? We can elect the US president on the basis of the entire world population. Is that the American tradition? Leftists tell me the US is an irredeemable and illegitimate settler colonial project founded on slavery, white supremacy, and genocide. When the US has an active foreign policy, I'm told we are "destabilizing foreign nations", or engaging in "neo-imperialism". When we have a passive foreign policy, I'm told we are "complicit", or "abandoning allies". There's nothing the US can do, or not do, which doesn't get demonized to the Moon and back. Right here in this thread, someone is trashing us for our WW2 involvement. HN has been basically silent on the Swiss referendum to put a hard stop to immigration to Switzerland. But all the US has to is pause immigration for a bit, and I'm told we are "vile". And now, I'm told about an "American tradition" that we are supposedly "twisting". You sure that isn't a good thing? Look where those "American traditions" got us. Our nation is a DISASTER, right? Shouldn't we be keeping out brown people for their own safety?
  - Erem 1mo ago
    You're not arguing against leftists, you're arguing against Abraham Lincoln. If you want to know the answers to your questions, read about Abraham Lincoln. And no I will never agree that policies created out of racism will somehow bear sweet fruit from poisoned water. All over this thread you have been misreading and strawmaning others in order to seem more reasonable. Even in this thread you misread me: the vile part was the homeless analogy, not the policy. It's just time to draw the line in the sand: yours are the ideas lead to suffering and genocide and nobody whose words are worth reading wants that.

ImPostingOnHN 1mo ago

The property owner in this case is the American people, who I'm pretty sure don't support this. They may have hired a property manager, but if the manager goes rogue, what the owners say is more important.

0xDEAFBEAD 1mo ago
OK but that's a much different argument from "the cruelty is the point".
- ImPostingOnHN 1mo ago
  The legal perspective doesn't preclude that the cruelty is the point.
  - 0xDEAFBEAD 1mo ago
    Consider the possibility that people might simply have different views from you.
    - ImPostingOnHN 1mo ago
      You're right, that is always a possibility for any random thing. Okay, done. Now you do the same.
      - 0xDEAFBEAD 29d ago
        I'm looking for the view you guys have beneath all the performative outrage and I haven't been able to discover it yet. For example, this user wasn't able to explain why foreigners shouldn't vote in US elections: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49465747 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49465747
        ImPostingOnHN 28d ago
        I think you responded to the wrong post. Try going to your link to respond to a post about your link. Back to this topic: have you yet considered the possibility that people might simply have different views from you on what constitutes unreasonable cruelty? Doing that consideration yourself might help you understand why people do not agree with you, or take seriously your performative outrage on the matter.

Erem 1mo ago

This is a vile analogy, whose implication so twists the American tradition that I blush with shame to read it from a possible countryman. What American tradition? I'll let Lincoln speak, since you have already given voice to his opposition. "As a nation, we began by declaring that 'all men are created equal.' We now practically read it 'all men are created equal, except negroes.' When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy."

0xDEAFBEAD 1mo ago
If "all men are created equal" applies to foreign citizens, why not just go all the way and let them vote in US elections? We can elect the US president on the basis of the entire world population. Is that the American tradition? Leftists tell me the US is an irredeemable and illegitimate settler colonial project founded on slavery, white supremacy, and genocide. When the US has an active foreign policy, I'm told we are "destabilizing foreign nations", or engaging in "neo-imperialism". When we have a passive foreign policy, I'm told we are "complicit", or "abandoning allies". There's nothing the US can do, or not do, which doesn't get demonized to the Moon and back. Right here in this thread, someone is trashing us for our WW2 involvement. HN has been basically silent on the Swiss referendum to put a hard stop to immigration to Switzerland. But all the US has to is pause immigration for a bit, and I'm told we are "vile". And now, I'm told about an "American tradition" that we are supposedly "twisting". You sure that isn't a good thing? Look where those "American traditions" got us. Our nation is a DISASTER, right? Shouldn't we be keeping out brown people for their own safety?
- Erem 1mo ago
  You're not arguing against leftists, you're arguing against Abraham Lincoln. If you want to know the answers to your questions, read about Abraham Lincoln. And no I will never agree that policies created out of racism will somehow bear sweet fruit from poisoned water. All over this thread you have been misreading and strawmaning others in order to seem more reasonable. Even in this thread you misread me: the vile part was the homeless analogy, not the policy. It's just time to draw the line in the sand: yours are the ideas lead to suffering and genocide and nobody whose words are worth reading wants that.