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> I am kind of amazed how negative the comments are here, especially on HN. I can't recall or point out exactly when, but there is a stark before/after moment

> I am kind of amazed how negative the comments are here, especially on HN. I can't recall or point out exactly when, but there is a stark before/after moment where the opinions of anything pg went from "Interesting and maybe true in some ways" to what we see today, lots of knee-jerk reactions and hardly any comments about the actual content. Hazarding a guess, I think the moment Altman became the CEO and later during COVID, the sentiment seemed to have been shifting towards what we see today. But this is all based on hazy memory, rather than looking at the data. I'm sure there is a blog post waiting to be written about analyzing the sentiment of comments to PGs articles on HN, and you'll see a shift somewhere.

deleted 2mo ago
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trentor 2mo ago
Because at some point in life everyone gets tired of fairytales. He started mending the anecdotes to his content which always rubs people the wrong way.
- embedding-shape 2mo ago
  So, this comment of yours obviously isn't in the "knee-jerk reaction" category of comments, I suppose? What exactly from the linked tweet(s) are fairytales here? There is hardly any text at all, so strikes me as a comment about previous pg content, but then this would be one of those comments I talk about? Very confusing.
  - trentor 2mo ago
    Your hand waving doesn't make it knee-jerk. It's just what happened to his writing since COVID. He goes for more of a shock and awe style and not everybody likes it. He's been writing for over 20 years now, hasn't he? His style has clearly changed, and an changing style attracts a different audience so it's no surprise his original readers might not connect with his newer work...
latexr 2mo ago
> I can't recall or point out exactly when, but there is a stark before/after moment where the opinions of anything pg went from "Interesting and maybe true in some ways" to what we see today, lots of knee-jerk reactions and hardly any comments about the actual content. Hard disagree. This submission is still being highly upvoted, while another recent post[1] on the harms caused by Graham’s fellows[2], with a fairly tame comment section, has been flagged. That is a constant on HN. It’s not a fluke, it’s as predictable as the sunrise and getting more pronounced. I’m sure we’re both biased in our perceptions. Mine is that HN in general (certainly more than any other website) used to worship[3] everything he wrote, together with others like Musk, until things started to really go to shit and many eyes have been opened to the effects of the unfettered greed of rich tech guys out of touch with reality.[4] [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49411762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49411762 [2]: A better English word is escaping me. [3]: That word I choose hyperbolically but deliberately. It definitely was not “interesting and maybe true in some ways”, it was much more hardcore than that. [4]: That is not “knee-jerk” but a slow realisation still ongoing.
- embedding-shape 2mo ago
  > Mine is that HN in general (certainly more than any other website) used to worship[3] everything he wrote [...] It definitely was not “interesting and maybe true in some ways”, it was much more hardcore than that. I guess it depends on what submission you look at, previous comment of mine solely based on memory. Now I went to https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=twitter.com/paulg https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=twitter.com/paulg, clicked "More" a bunch of times, and seems my memory was more or less correct, none of the submissions I clicked on are "pg worship" (hyperbolic or not). Just one example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19418701 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19418701 Maybe you need to enable "Show Dead" or something? Pgs articles on HN definitely never was free of any critique in the HN comments, just like any article. Although I do agree with you that it used to be different than it is today, and same with Musk too, and Altman, and probably more individuals, where they were lauded before but now pretty much just mentioning them poisons the conversation.
  - latexr 2mo ago
captainbland 2mo ago
Imo it's a breakdown of trust of the startup ecosystem as a whole. Repeatedly startups have enshittified and it's become undeniable that the investment apparatus around startups is partly responsible. We have seen a great driver of uncreative destruction, industries undermined, small businesses undermined just to drive masses of money into few pockets - less fairness for the people working in what is now the gig economy and ultimately prices and other costs that end up as high or higher than they were before for consumers. Not to mention the whole AI/OpenAI situation which many perceive as threatening their skillset per se, essentially tearing up the social contract that existed on this site. The sycophancy on HN is starting to break down because there is a higher proportion of users sceptical towards the outputs of the VC and wider investment world than ones who believe they're potential beneficiaries of it. Tech industry people are becoming less interested in HN as a warm handshake into the startup world because, frequently, they're disgusted by it. And this reflects on the sentiments people post on PG's articles. Increasingly if those at YC want the same kind of low-bar praise they got before, they will need to get it from machines.
- deleted 2mo ago
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s1artibartfast 2mo ago
If you did a data analysis, I expect you would see an uptick with the 2023 Reddit API controversy. HN got a big influx of redditors with different sociopolitical perspectives and discussion norms. This might be hard to disentangle from the tech correction layoffs of 2023 and 2024, but my perception is that most of the spite comes from Tech Outsiders opposed to jaded Developers.
deleted 1mo ago
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trentor 2mo ago

Because at some point in life everyone gets tired of fairytales. He started mending the anecdotes to his content which always rubs people the wrong way.

embedding-shape 2mo ago
So, this comment of yours obviously isn't in the "knee-jerk reaction" category of comments, I suppose? What exactly from the linked tweet(s) are fairytales here? There is hardly any text at all, so strikes me as a comment about previous pg content, but then this would be one of those comments I talk about? Very confusing.
- trentor 2mo ago
  Your hand waving doesn't make it knee-jerk. It's just what happened to his writing since COVID. He goes for more of a shock and awe style and not everybody likes it. He's been writing for over 20 years now, hasn't he? His style has clearly changed, and an changing style attracts a different audience so it's no surprise his original readers might not connect with his newer work...

latexr 2mo ago

> I can't recall or point out exactly when, but there is a stark before/after moment where the opinions of anything pg went from "Interesting and maybe true in some ways" to what we see today, lots of knee-jerk reactions and hardly any comments about the actual content. Hard disagree. This submission is still being highly upvoted, while another recent post[1] on the harms caused by Graham’s fellows[2], with a fairly tame comment section, has been flagged. That is a constant on HN. It’s not a fluke, it’s as predictable as the sunrise and getting more pronounced. I’m sure we’re both biased in our perceptions. Mine is that HN in general (certainly more than any other website) used to worship[3] everything he wrote, together with others like Musk, until things started to really go to shit and many eyes have been opened to the effects of the unfettered greed of rich tech guys out of touch with reality.[4] [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49411762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49411762 [2]: A better English word is escaping me. [3]: That word I choose hyperbolically but deliberately. It definitely was not “interesting and maybe true in some ways”, it was much more hardcore than that. [4]: That is not “knee-jerk” but a slow realisation still ongoing.

embedding-shape 2mo ago
> Mine is that HN in general (certainly more than any other website) used to worship[3] everything he wrote [...] It definitely was not “interesting and maybe true in some ways”, it was much more hardcore than that. I guess it depends on what submission you look at, previous comment of mine solely based on memory. Now I went to https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=twitter.com/paulg https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=twitter.com/paulg, clicked "More" a bunch of times, and seems my memory was more or less correct, none of the submissions I clicked on are "pg worship" (hyperbolic or not). Just one example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19418701 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19418701 Maybe you need to enable "Show Dead" or something? Pgs articles on HN definitely never was free of any critique in the HN comments, just like any article. Although I do agree with you that it used to be different than it is today, and same with Musk too, and Altman, and probably more individuals, where they were lauded before but now pretty much just mentioning them poisons the conversation.
- latexr 2mo ago

captainbland 2mo ago

Imo it's a breakdown of trust of the startup ecosystem as a whole. Repeatedly startups have enshittified and it's become undeniable that the investment apparatus around startups is partly responsible. We have seen a great driver of uncreative destruction, industries undermined, small businesses undermined just to drive masses of money into few pockets - less fairness for the people working in what is now the gig economy and ultimately prices and other costs that end up as high or higher than they were before for consumers. Not to mention the whole AI/OpenAI situation which many perceive as threatening their skillset per se, essentially tearing up the social contract that existed on this site. The sycophancy on HN is starting to break down because there is a higher proportion of users sceptical towards the outputs of the VC and wider investment world than ones who believe they're potential beneficiaries of it. Tech industry people are becoming less interested in HN as a warm handshake into the startup world because, frequently, they're disgusted by it. And this reflects on the sentiments people post on PG's articles. Increasingly if those at YC want the same kind of low-bar praise they got before, they will need to get it from machines.

deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]

s1artibartfast 2mo ago

If you did a data analysis, I expect you would see an uptick with the 2023 Reddit API controversy. HN got a big influx of redditors with different sociopolitical perspectives and discussion norms. This might be hard to disentangle from the tech correction layoffs of 2023 and 2024, but my perception is that most of the spite comes from Tech Outsiders opposed to jaded Developers.

deleted 1mo ago

[deleted]