10 ms·

Good move. There's an interesting old article on the door handles here: > https://medium.com/@arunchidambaram/is-teslas-door-handle-an-over-kill-21e42756f58e

Good move. There's an interesting old article on the door handles here: > https://medium.com/@arunchidambaram/is-teslas-door-handle-an-over-kill-21e42756f58e https://medium.com/@arunchidambaram/is-teslas-door-handle-an... In aerodynamic terms, door handles are nbd compared to side mirrors. Mirrors account for 6% of a car's aerodynamic drag. Door handles: roughly 0.2%. Basically they make no difference -- their effect is a rounding error -- and they were implemented for form-over-function style points.

JeremyNT 2mo ago
Is it not possible to build a mechanical handle with similar aero properties? It's the electronic activation that's at issue here, not the shape.
- preg_match 2mo ago
  Yes, you can make mechanical handles that are flush with the car body. In which you push one end and then the other end sticks out, allowing you to open the door. The fancy electric handles are just for show. They’re cool looking and engineers salivate over this stuff. But they’re a bad idea.
cherioo 2mo ago
What i hear is that electric door handle is more of a manufacturing cost-saving measure than an aerodynamic saving.
- frollogaston 2mo ago
  Isn't it only the Model S that has those electric door handles that pop out on their own? And the cheaper Model 3 has hidden ones that you pop out yourself.
  - Shank 2mo ago
    That's correct but the interior door handles are electronic buttons. When you pull the exterior handle, during the time when you pull the handle the car also lowers the windows so the door can open.
    - jerlam 2mo ago
      Which is only important because someone at Tesla decided their cars must have frameless windows, despite it being a luxury feature that adds complication. Normal framed windows don't need any special handling of the windows when you open the door.
      - ssl-3 2mo ago
        There have been other cars with frameless windows that didn't have this drop-before-opening feature. 2nd/3rd/4th-gen F-bodies (Camaro/Firebird), for example: All of these cars had frameless windows. None of them did an automatic drop. (And a lot of these cars didn't come with power windows to begin with.)
        jerlam 2mo ago
        When Tesla windows are up, the glass tucks underneath the door trim, on both sides of the window. I'm guessing it's for aerodynamics and/or wind noise. I'm not familiar with those other cars, but maybe they're only sealing from the inside of the window? So it's both the frameless aspect and the desire to have a "luxury" car.
    - frollogaston 2mo ago
      Same as a convertible or some coupes, right? Except for the inside being a button
      - Shank 2mo ago
        Mechanistically, when the door is closed, the frameless window sits inside the body. I'm not sure how the design works with respect to other cars, but in Tesla, you "have" to lower the window mechanically before the door can open or it "will" break. If you use the emergency handles in the front and other mechanisms to open the door and the car has power, it will try to do this as fast as possible, but I think there is theoretical damage risk. Obviously if the car has no powered and it's on fire, you probably just want to leave and don't care about the windows.
- Rohansi 2mo ago
  Is it really though? On a Tesla you have both the electronic button and manual door release from every door on the inside. You wouldn't need those manual releases if the doors weren't electronic.
- userbinator 2mo ago
  Strong disagree; it's not saving anything but the jobs of those who seem to really enjoy overcomplicating things so they can justify their continued employment. The old-school pure mechanical lock can be converted into an electric one with just the addition of a solenoid to unlock and lock it. They can be just as flush and aerodynamic without introducing more complexity: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49415744 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49415744 I've dealt with the complexities of automotive mechanisms long enough to see many cases where it seems someone just wanted to make something extra fancy rather than solve the fundamentally simple problem. German designs were notoriously one of the worst in this regard, but others are catching up.
- dist-epoch 2mo ago
  They look way more complicated than the previous mechanical locks.
sillysaurusx 2mo ago
Would it help to add a surface behind the side mirrors so that it's more aerodynamic? I'm thinking something that stretches from the car body to the side mirrors. Or could the side mirrors could be shaped like an airplane's wing so that the air displaces nicely? It'd look weird, but I'd rather have the fuel efficiency.
- eru 2mo ago
  You could replace the mirrors with tiny cameras and screens inside the car, perhaps. But not sure that would be legal.
  - fxtentacle 2mo ago
    That’s what big trucks use. Because you can use wide angle cameras and actually see more.
    - eru 2mo ago
      These days you could probably even stitch together images from multiple cameras?
      - arlcode 2mo ago
        That's also what trucks already do to eliminate dead angles and help the driver manoeuver in tight spaces
  - b112 2mo ago
    But this is part of the problem. A mirror just works, or is very visibly broken if not. We want to have less electronic stuff in cars, not more. So I hope this isn't legal.
    - cicko 2mo ago
      Sadly, it is (in the EU, at least). One just passed me on the highway.
FeloniousHam 2mo ago
https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-car-makers-alliance-pushing-to-legalise-side-cameras/ https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-car-makers-alliance-push... I think Tesla looks for efficiencies wherever possible, and any alignment with aesthetic goals is an easy win.
diggernet 2mo ago
You know what's a bigger source of drag than mirrors? Open wheel wells. If the Tesla door handles were really because they care that much about aerodynamics, their cars would look more like the 1st Gen Honda Insight. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Insight#/media/File:HondaInsight.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Insight#/media/File:Hond...

JeremyNT 2mo ago

Is it not possible to build a mechanical handle with similar aero properties? It's the electronic activation that's at issue here, not the shape.

preg_match 2mo ago
Yes, you can make mechanical handles that are flush with the car body. In which you push one end and then the other end sticks out, allowing you to open the door. The fancy electric handles are just for show. They’re cool looking and engineers salivate over this stuff. But they’re a bad idea.

cherioo 2mo ago

What i hear is that electric door handle is more of a manufacturing cost-saving measure than an aerodynamic saving.

frollogaston 2mo ago
Isn't it only the Model S that has those electric door handles that pop out on their own? And the cheaper Model 3 has hidden ones that you pop out yourself.
- Shank 2mo ago
  That's correct but the interior door handles are electronic buttons. When you pull the exterior handle, during the time when you pull the handle the car also lowers the windows so the door can open.
  - jerlam 2mo ago
    Which is only important because someone at Tesla decided their cars must have frameless windows, despite it being a luxury feature that adds complication. Normal framed windows don't need any special handling of the windows when you open the door.
    - ssl-3 2mo ago
      There have been other cars with frameless windows that didn't have this drop-before-opening feature. 2nd/3rd/4th-gen F-bodies (Camaro/Firebird), for example: All of these cars had frameless windows. None of them did an automatic drop. (And a lot of these cars didn't come with power windows to begin with.)
      - jerlam 2mo ago
        When Tesla windows are up, the glass tucks underneath the door trim, on both sides of the window. I'm guessing it's for aerodynamics and/or wind noise. I'm not familiar with those other cars, but maybe they're only sealing from the inside of the window? So it's both the frameless aspect and the desire to have a "luxury" car.
  - frollogaston 2mo ago
    Same as a convertible or some coupes, right? Except for the inside being a button
    - Shank 2mo ago
      Mechanistically, when the door is closed, the frameless window sits inside the body. I'm not sure how the design works with respect to other cars, but in Tesla, you "have" to lower the window mechanically before the door can open or it "will" break. If you use the emergency handles in the front and other mechanisms to open the door and the car has power, it will try to do this as fast as possible, but I think there is theoretical damage risk. Obviously if the car has no powered and it's on fire, you probably just want to leave and don't care about the windows.
Rohansi 2mo ago
Is it really though? On a Tesla you have both the electronic button and manual door release from every door on the inside. You wouldn't need those manual releases if the doors weren't electronic.
userbinator 2mo ago
Strong disagree; it's not saving anything but the jobs of those who seem to really enjoy overcomplicating things so they can justify their continued employment. The old-school pure mechanical lock can be converted into an electric one with just the addition of a solenoid to unlock and lock it. They can be just as flush and aerodynamic without introducing more complexity: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49415744 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49415744 I've dealt with the complexities of automotive mechanisms long enough to see many cases where it seems someone just wanted to make something extra fancy rather than solve the fundamentally simple problem. German designs were notoriously one of the worst in this regard, but others are catching up.
dist-epoch 2mo ago
They look way more complicated than the previous mechanical locks.

sillysaurusx 2mo ago

Would it help to add a surface behind the side mirrors so that it's more aerodynamic? I'm thinking something that stretches from the car body to the side mirrors. Or could the side mirrors could be shaped like an airplane's wing so that the air displaces nicely? It'd look weird, but I'd rather have the fuel efficiency.

eru 2mo ago
You could replace the mirrors with tiny cameras and screens inside the car, perhaps. But not sure that would be legal.
- fxtentacle 2mo ago
  That’s what big trucks use. Because you can use wide angle cameras and actually see more.
  - eru 2mo ago
    These days you could probably even stitch together images from multiple cameras?
    - arlcode 2mo ago
      That's also what trucks already do to eliminate dead angles and help the driver manoeuver in tight spaces
- b112 2mo ago
  But this is part of the problem. A mirror just works, or is very visibly broken if not. We want to have less electronic stuff in cars, not more. So I hope this isn't legal.
  - cicko 2mo ago
    Sadly, it is (in the EU, at least). One just passed me on the highway.

FeloniousHam 2mo ago

https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-car-makers-alliance-pushing-to-legalise-side-cameras/ https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-car-makers-alliance-push... I think Tesla looks for efficiencies wherever possible, and any alignment with aesthetic goals is an easy win.

diggernet 2mo ago

You know what's a bigger source of drag than mirrors? Open wheel wells. If the Tesla door handles were really because they care that much about aerodynamics, their cars would look more like the 1st Gen Honda Insight. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Insight#/media/File:HondaInsight.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Insight#/media/File:Hond...