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I don’t blame people for being confused about the term in software — it’s a bit more straightforward in manufacturing, for example. That said, if you look at a

I don’t blame people for being confused about the term in software — it’s a bit more straightforward in manufacturing, for example. That said, if you look at a system that failed and determine a root cause analysis is pointless, you may have just stumbled upon your root cause.

marcosdumay 2mo ago
> it’s a bit more straightforward in manufacturing That's because manufacturing is a simpler environment where causes and consequences are more conceptually distinct. Until you start to pull management decisions into your analysis, of course. Then it becomes just as complex as software.
- pdonis 2mo ago
  > Until you start to pull management decisions into your analysis, of course. Meaning, having something like "management will decide not to fund maintenance for this component in the future, causing a failure" in your fault tree?
  - marcosdumay 1mo ago
    Yes, and "why did managenent decide not to do it?" too.
- DrewADesign 2mo ago
  There’s even more variety in industrial flows than software architectures, and some of them are pretty fucking complex, but the steps are usually better defined, the processes more deliberate, and the custody of material and process oversight is better documented… at least for manufacturers in more advanced countries that are far more liable for product defects. You can dick around with software or software services with relative impunity, but if you release a product with a dangerous manufacturing defect, or lose a few runs of expensive material, the bottom line is not as forgiving. I’m sure there are places in developing countries burning waste plastic to make garbage pot metal products or something for which that level of oversight provides near zero ROI, but outside of that, it’s usually just a lot more deliberate.
toolslive 1mo ago
maybe, it's the other way around: If you search for one, and you find one, then your system is not complex.

marcosdumay 2mo ago

> it’s a bit more straightforward in manufacturing That's because manufacturing is a simpler environment where causes and consequences are more conceptually distinct. Until you start to pull management decisions into your analysis, of course. Then it becomes just as complex as software.

pdonis 2mo ago
> Until you start to pull management decisions into your analysis, of course. Meaning, having something like "management will decide not to fund maintenance for this component in the future, causing a failure" in your fault tree?
- marcosdumay 1mo ago
  Yes, and "why did managenent decide not to do it?" too.
DrewADesign 2mo ago
There’s even more variety in industrial flows than software architectures, and some of them are pretty fucking complex, but the steps are usually better defined, the processes more deliberate, and the custody of material and process oversight is better documented… at least for manufacturers in more advanced countries that are far more liable for product defects. You can dick around with software or software services with relative impunity, but if you release a product with a dangerous manufacturing defect, or lose a few runs of expensive material, the bottom line is not as forgiving. I’m sure there are places in developing countries burning waste plastic to make garbage pot metal products or something for which that level of oversight provides near zero ROI, but outside of that, it’s usually just a lot more deliberate.

toolslive 1mo ago

maybe, it's the other way around: If you search for one, and you find one, then your system is not complex.