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Hardcore builders will remove the lid of their CPU to get the best possible thermal contact. The performance improvement is very small and not worth it but the

Hardcore builders will remove the lid of their CPU to get the best possible thermal contact. The performance improvement is very small and not worth it but the bragging rights are fun. Unless you destroy the chip while delidding it, that is.

jdiff 2mo ago
The article mentions this, but this was before CPUs had lids. When delidding a CPU, you have to be very careful not to crack the silicon die that you are applying force directly to. In the case of this Athlon, even care wasn't enough.
- polpo 2mo ago
  Interestingly, AMD's previous gen processors, the K6/K6-2/K6-III, were all lidded flip chips. A delidded K6-era CPU looks remarkably similar to the early Athlons which did away with the lid.
  - 3453f4f 2mo ago
    There are three good pieces of history for you to look at. First, the NexGen Nx686 prototype... that became the K6 after AMD bought NexGen. https://web.archive.org/web/19990901212245/http://www.sandpile.org/impl/nx6.htm https://web.archive.org/web/19990901212245/http://www.sandpi... https://web.archive.org/web/20000831030211/http://www.sandpile.org/impl/pics/nexgen/nx6/nx6a_top.jpg https://web.archive.org/web/20000831030211/http://www.sandpi... https://web.archive.org/web/20000831030227/http://www.sandpile.org/impl/pics/nexgen/nx6/nx6b_top.jpg https://web.archive.org/web/20000831030227/http://www.sandpi... Second, the AMD K6 prototype... which came in a small footprint ceramic package. https://www.cpushack.com/chippics/AMD/K6/AMDK6-Processor-CA-ES.html https://www.cpushack.com/chippics/AMD/K6/AMDK6-Processor-CA-... Third, the AMD K7... which also came in that small footprint ceramic package, on a Slot A PCB, with L2 cache chips. http://www.cpu-galerie.de/html/amdk7athlonslot.html http://www.cpu-galerie.de/html/amdk7athlonslot.html Enjoy!
    - srean 2mo ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49407748 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49407748 Thanks for the nostalgia trip.
    - cogman10 2mo ago
      Man I sort of miss the cartridge CPU. I get why it's not a thing anymore, but man was it fun to slot in a CPU like you would an old SNES game.
- Dwedit 2mo ago
  Pentium 4 had lids. AMD Athlon XP did not.
xattt 2mo ago
Flip-chip packaging is still common in laptops. Still a (albeit minor) risk if you're repasting an older laptop.
- formerly_proven 2mo ago
  The article is mistaken, all the lidded chips (discussed here) are also flip chip/C4. Just with a metal plate on top. That would be in contrast to the earlier lidded chips (like a 68k or i486) with ceramic packages, where the chip is mounted right side up on the ceramic package and then wire bonded, the lid just covers the bond wires.
- weiran 2mo ago
  TBH I don’t think I’ve seen a lidded chip on anything other than a CPU.
  - NuclearPM 2mo ago
    Thank you for being honest.
  - userbinator 2mo ago
    Bigger FPGAs use them, as do other high-performance ASICs like network switches, video processors, etc.
srean 2mo ago
Your comment reminded me of my K6 (or was it a K7) based PC I had assembled as a high schooler of modest means. My goto testing protocol was to recompile the Linux kernel and make GNU chess play itself at the highest settings. I was quite disheartened to find that my rig would crash out repeatedly. Not a single successful compilation of the kernel. Then on a whim I removed the case and pointed my table fan at it. Voila, everything worked. I had planned to get some more thermal paste and redo the thermals and put the case back. But I never did. Then one day the dialer of my landline got fried by a thunderstorm. No problem I used to dial using my modem and my skeletonic linux box. Great setup when the money is tight. Good times.
- joaquincabezas 2mo ago
  Table fan was the way to go in our first LAN party during the summer of the year 2000 in the south of Spain. These computer case side panels were all piled against the wall.
- inigyou 2mo ago
  as a kid I once had a PC that would make a very loud siren noise when it was overheating. I don't know why they thought that was a good idea but I did solve it by pointing a fan at it. Somehow my parents never came and asked what's that noise.
- anyfoo 2mo ago
  I tried everything for my IBM 6x86 PR166+. Everything. Pretty much every BIOS setup option, fans, reapplying thermal paste… still, the machine would often not survive a Linux kernel build without SIGSEGV, or just randomly hang. Much later I finally noticed that the PSU, that I had in this same case ever since the PC started out as a 486, was something ridiculous, like 75W or so. I got a new cheap PSU, and finally the spookiness stopped.
tambeb 2mo ago
The performance improvement can actually be pretty significant, depending on the exact setup of course. In my case I delidded 3 Intel CPUs a few years back (i9-9900k and similar vintages) and replaced the thermal paste under the lid with liquid metal (from Thermal Grizzly) and also used liquid metal between the outside of the lid and either a water cooler block or a heatsink and fan. I forget the exact figures but I wanna say idle and even maximum load temps were around 20 degrees cooler... and all 3 were max overclocked to 5GHz. In fact I still use all three as network storage servers now.

jdiff 2mo ago

The article mentions this, but this was before CPUs had lids. When delidding a CPU, you have to be very careful not to crack the silicon die that you are applying force directly to. In the case of this Athlon, even care wasn't enough.

polpo 2mo ago
Interestingly, AMD's previous gen processors, the K6/K6-2/K6-III, were all lidded flip chips. A delidded K6-era CPU looks remarkably similar to the early Athlons which did away with the lid.
- 3453f4f 2mo ago
  There are three good pieces of history for you to look at. First, the NexGen Nx686 prototype... that became the K6 after AMD bought NexGen. https://web.archive.org/web/19990901212245/http://www.sandpile.org/impl/nx6.htm https://web.archive.org/web/19990901212245/http://www.sandpi... https://web.archive.org/web/20000831030211/http://www.sandpile.org/impl/pics/nexgen/nx6/nx6a_top.jpg https://web.archive.org/web/20000831030211/http://www.sandpi... https://web.archive.org/web/20000831030227/http://www.sandpile.org/impl/pics/nexgen/nx6/nx6b_top.jpg https://web.archive.org/web/20000831030227/http://www.sandpi... Second, the AMD K6 prototype... which came in a small footprint ceramic package. https://www.cpushack.com/chippics/AMD/K6/AMDK6-Processor-CA-ES.html https://www.cpushack.com/chippics/AMD/K6/AMDK6-Processor-CA-... Third, the AMD K7... which also came in that small footprint ceramic package, on a Slot A PCB, with L2 cache chips. http://www.cpu-galerie.de/html/amdk7athlonslot.html http://www.cpu-galerie.de/html/amdk7athlonslot.html Enjoy!
  - srean 2mo ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49407748 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49407748 Thanks for the nostalgia trip.
  - cogman10 2mo ago
    Man I sort of miss the cartridge CPU. I get why it's not a thing anymore, but man was it fun to slot in a CPU like you would an old SNES game.
Dwedit 2mo ago
Pentium 4 had lids. AMD Athlon XP did not.

xattt 2mo ago

Flip-chip packaging is still common in laptops. Still a (albeit minor) risk if you're repasting an older laptop.

formerly_proven 2mo ago
The article is mistaken, all the lidded chips (discussed here) are also flip chip/C4. Just with a metal plate on top. That would be in contrast to the earlier lidded chips (like a 68k or i486) with ceramic packages, where the chip is mounted right side up on the ceramic package and then wire bonded, the lid just covers the bond wires.
weiran 2mo ago
TBH I don’t think I’ve seen a lidded chip on anything other than a CPU.
- NuclearPM 2mo ago
  Thank you for being honest.
- userbinator 2mo ago
  Bigger FPGAs use them, as do other high-performance ASICs like network switches, video processors, etc.

srean 2mo ago

Your comment reminded me of my K6 (or was it a K7) based PC I had assembled as a high schooler of modest means. My goto testing protocol was to recompile the Linux kernel and make GNU chess play itself at the highest settings. I was quite disheartened to find that my rig would crash out repeatedly. Not a single successful compilation of the kernel. Then on a whim I removed the case and pointed my table fan at it. Voila, everything worked. I had planned to get some more thermal paste and redo the thermals and put the case back. But I never did. Then one day the dialer of my landline got fried by a thunderstorm. No problem I used to dial using my modem and my skeletonic linux box. Great setup when the money is tight. Good times.

joaquincabezas 2mo ago
Table fan was the way to go in our first LAN party during the summer of the year 2000 in the south of Spain. These computer case side panels were all piled against the wall.
inigyou 2mo ago
as a kid I once had a PC that would make a very loud siren noise when it was overheating. I don't know why they thought that was a good idea but I did solve it by pointing a fan at it. Somehow my parents never came and asked what's that noise.
anyfoo 2mo ago
I tried everything for my IBM 6x86 PR166+. Everything. Pretty much every BIOS setup option, fans, reapplying thermal paste… still, the machine would often not survive a Linux kernel build without SIGSEGV, or just randomly hang. Much later I finally noticed that the PSU, that I had in this same case ever since the PC started out as a 486, was something ridiculous, like 75W or so. I got a new cheap PSU, and finally the spookiness stopped.

tambeb 2mo ago

The performance improvement can actually be pretty significant, depending on the exact setup of course. In my case I delidded 3 Intel CPUs a few years back (i9-9900k and similar vintages) and replaced the thermal paste under the lid with liquid metal (from Thermal Grizzly) and also used liquid metal between the outside of the lid and either a water cooler block or a heatsink and fan. I forget the exact figures but I wanna say idle and even maximum load temps were around 20 degrees cooler... and all 3 were max overclocked to 5GHz. In fact I still use all three as network storage servers now.