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Reciprocal tariffs alone don’t make much sense, it’s just making things for Canadians more expensive with an adversary that’s larger and can sustain them longer

Reciprocal tariffs alone don’t make much sense, it’s just making things for Canadians more expensive with an adversary that’s larger and can sustain them longer (although how long remains to be seen with guilt yields rising.) If they really want to hurt them start making it legal to circumvent DRM on American products and allow build meaningful replacements.

jtrn 1mo ago
If this was even close to true, why did basicly this exact same move work when china did it and when EU threatend to do the same before. And from a different angle: “giving fines to firms makes no sense since they firm can only get money from customers so it’s just going to make it more expensive for the customer”. Not an identical situatio, but to say it’s the only consequence, that it becomes more expensive for Canadian, is just not right.
diego_moita 1mo ago
> Reciprocal tariffs alone don’t make much sense, In the short run, yes. In the long run we can start replacing American imports with other countries' imports. I want to see more fruits and vegetables from Mexico, Africa and South America in supermarkets. Give me less "Made in America" on shelves.
- kasey_junk 1mo ago
  You’d have to tariff fruits and vegetables like crazy to make the American varieties more expensive than oceanic shipped produce. That seems a fairly steep price for the Canadian consumer. Which highlights the problems with tariffs, they are self harming. You have to be willing to give up better alternatives for some other reason, and food is a hard one.
  - diego_moita 1mo ago
    > You’d have to tariff fruits and vegetables like crazy to make the American varieties more expensive than oceanic shipped produce. Bullshit. I already see in the supermarket (Canadian Superstore) oranges from South Africa, lemons from Morocco, broccoli from Mexico, mangoes from Malaysia, fish from the Philippines, coconut from Vietnam, kiwis from Italy, etc. Yes, oceanic shipping adds to the cost. But most of those countries already have cheaper labor, and that partially offsets the extra cost.
    - kasey_junk 1mo ago
      Mangoes and South Asian fish don’t grow close to you no matter what. You don’t think bull shipping Mexican tomatoes via the ocean isn’t going to cost more than the same tomato shipped by the US land route? If you were going to take that tariff money to build up a local tomato industry it might make sense, Canada already has a growing hot house industry. But don’t kid yourself, tariffs cost the consumer and for low margin highly seasonal and subject to going bad goods like produce is about the worst case scenario.
      - diego_moita 1mo ago
        Whatever man... If you want people to buy stuff from you Americans then just try to stop pushing forward American imperialism down into everyone's throats. This isn't just about money, it is about my country's sovereignty.
        kasey_junk 1mo ago
        That’s a reasonable reason to apply tariffs. But don’t assume it’s _us_ paying that tax. It’s you. We get to get taxed on the other side by paying more for Canadian goods.
        jjtwixman 1mo ago
        It's not about economics, it's about politics. The free world hates you. You just don't realise it yet.
        kasey_junk 1mo ago
        Sadly most of us do realize it. But this is why tariffs are so pernicious. Because you hate me, you are going to tax yourself. It’s a negative sum world view. It’s bad enough that Trump believes the nonsense, he’s been able to export it.
        diego_moita 1mo ago
        > It’s you. Only if I buy "Made in America". Whenever possible, it won't happen.
  - _whiteCaps_ 1mo ago
    New Zealand apples are literally the same price as the US ones around here in BC.
    - kasey_junk 1mo ago
      New Zealand is having a bumper apple crop this year. Literally one of the best in 30 years. And umm American apple season hasn’t started yet. https://www.thepress.co.nz/rural/360955858/bumper-harvest-apples-and-pears https://www.thepress.co.nz/rural/360955858/bumper-harvest-ap...
sanderjd 1mo ago
We, in the US, might be able to sustain this longer economically, but Canadians can sustain this longer politically.
- morkalork 1mo ago
  Well it's 73 days till the midterm elections so we'll see what happens. Signing a bad deal when the political landscape could dramatically change in a few weeks never made sense.
  - sanderjd 1mo ago
    Yes. Same calculation the Iranians are making. Everyone knows the US election schedule and can read polls.
metabagel 1mo ago
It's not the U.S. which will suffer but individual companies, which will tend to create political pressure to end the tariffs. https://www.fastcompany.com/91531349/trumps-canada-trade-war-hits-jack-daniels-jim-beam-devastating-143-million-loss https://www.fastcompany.com/91531349/trumps-canada-trade-war...
acdha 1mo ago
I don’t think you can approach it from a rational economic perspective because that’s not how it started: it’s a dominance power play and what we’ve seen with China and the EU is that standing up to a bully is the only thing which causes them to back down. If you accept the offer, people like that see it as a sign they could’ve asked for more. The companies who are forced to raise prices are politically well-connected, mostly as part of his party, and I’m sure the Canadian government is banking on their executives and his laid-off voters pushing him to cut a deal.

jtrn 1mo ago

If this was even close to true, why did basicly this exact same move work when china did it and when EU threatend to do the same before. And from a different angle: “giving fines to firms makes no sense since they firm can only get money from customers so it’s just going to make it more expensive for the customer”. Not an identical situatio, but to say it’s the only consequence, that it becomes more expensive for Canadian, is just not right.

diego_moita 1mo ago

> Reciprocal tariffs alone don’t make much sense, In the short run, yes. In the long run we can start replacing American imports with other countries' imports. I want to see more fruits and vegetables from Mexico, Africa and South America in supermarkets. Give me less "Made in America" on shelves.

kasey_junk 1mo ago
You’d have to tariff fruits and vegetables like crazy to make the American varieties more expensive than oceanic shipped produce. That seems a fairly steep price for the Canadian consumer. Which highlights the problems with tariffs, they are self harming. You have to be willing to give up better alternatives for some other reason, and food is a hard one.
- diego_moita 1mo ago
  > You’d have to tariff fruits and vegetables like crazy to make the American varieties more expensive than oceanic shipped produce. Bullshit. I already see in the supermarket (Canadian Superstore) oranges from South Africa, lemons from Morocco, broccoli from Mexico, mangoes from Malaysia, fish from the Philippines, coconut from Vietnam, kiwis from Italy, etc. Yes, oceanic shipping adds to the cost. But most of those countries already have cheaper labor, and that partially offsets the extra cost.
  - kasey_junk 1mo ago
    Mangoes and South Asian fish don’t grow close to you no matter what. You don’t think bull shipping Mexican tomatoes via the ocean isn’t going to cost more than the same tomato shipped by the US land route? If you were going to take that tariff money to build up a local tomato industry it might make sense, Canada already has a growing hot house industry. But don’t kid yourself, tariffs cost the consumer and for low margin highly seasonal and subject to going bad goods like produce is about the worst case scenario.
    - diego_moita 1mo ago
      Whatever man... If you want people to buy stuff from you Americans then just try to stop pushing forward American imperialism down into everyone's throats. This isn't just about money, it is about my country's sovereignty.
      - kasey_junk 1mo ago
        That’s a reasonable reason to apply tariffs. But don’t assume it’s _us_ paying that tax. It’s you. We get to get taxed on the other side by paying more for Canadian goods.
        jjtwixman 1mo ago
        It's not about economics, it's about politics. The free world hates you. You just don't realise it yet.
        kasey_junk 1mo ago
        Sadly most of us do realize it. But this is why tariffs are so pernicious. Because you hate me, you are going to tax yourself. It’s a negative sum world view. It’s bad enough that Trump believes the nonsense, he’s been able to export it.
        diego_moita 1mo ago
        > It’s you. Only if I buy "Made in America". Whenever possible, it won't happen.
- _whiteCaps_ 1mo ago
  New Zealand apples are literally the same price as the US ones around here in BC.
  - kasey_junk 1mo ago
    New Zealand is having a bumper apple crop this year. Literally one of the best in 30 years. And umm American apple season hasn’t started yet. https://www.thepress.co.nz/rural/360955858/bumper-harvest-apples-and-pears https://www.thepress.co.nz/rural/360955858/bumper-harvest-ap...

sanderjd 1mo ago

We, in the US, might be able to sustain this longer economically, but Canadians can sustain this longer politically.

morkalork 1mo ago
Well it's 73 days till the midterm elections so we'll see what happens. Signing a bad deal when the political landscape could dramatically change in a few weeks never made sense.
- sanderjd 1mo ago
  Yes. Same calculation the Iranians are making. Everyone knows the US election schedule and can read polls.

metabagel 1mo ago

It's not the U.S. which will suffer but individual companies, which will tend to create political pressure to end the tariffs. https://www.fastcompany.com/91531349/trumps-canada-trade-war-hits-jack-daniels-jim-beam-devastating-143-million-loss https://www.fastcompany.com/91531349/trumps-canada-trade-war...

acdha 1mo ago

I don’t think you can approach it from a rational economic perspective because that’s not how it started: it’s a dominance power play and what we’ve seen with China and the EU is that standing up to a bully is the only thing which causes them to back down. If you accept the offer, people like that see it as a sign they could’ve asked for more. The companies who are forced to raise prices are politically well-connected, mostly as part of his party, and I’m sure the Canadian government is banking on their executives and his laid-off voters pushing him to cut a deal.