6 ms·

With all due respect, this is a wild take. Things aren't great in the U.S. right now, but they're not even in the same universe as what the Stasi was doing. >

With all due respect, this is a wild take. Things aren't great in the U.S. right now, but they're not even in the same universe as what the Stasi was doing. > I think it would be easier to understand the playing field and choose your actions accordingly, if you accept the US has entered its East Germany / late 20th century Soviet era -- except of course with 1000x more invasive and effective surveillance tech.

dijit 1mo ago
its only with the benefit of hindsight (and being on the winning side- thus the propaganda was never dispelled) that we consider the stasi and so on the way we do. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.. might just be a duck. I don’t believe those living “normal lives” in East Germany or the Soviet era considered the police to be evil and invasive the way we do today.
- leonidasrup 1mo ago
  Soviet era under Stalin was brutal. Soviet famine of 1930–1933 "It is estimated that 5.7 to 8.7 million people died from starvation across the Soviet Union. In addition, 50 to 70 million Soviet citizens starved during the famine but ultimately survived." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%9333 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%93... Great Purge "Scholars estimate the death toll of the Great Purge at 700,000 to 1.2 million." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge
  - dijit 1mo ago
    You might not realise it, but you're proving my point to some extent. We don't look at the deaths of our own people as "oppressive" despite the fact that the circumstances that caused them to die was our system. I'm not some bleeding heart liberal or anti-capitalist... I just have an open mind to the idea that we're not necessarily the good guys just because we are us and I look at what is factually true - as in, how could we be described by a non-sympathetic entity. Everyone is their own hero. Nobody believes sincerely that they're the baddie. Chronic lower respiratory diseases account for 145k people a year in the US, and that is a consequence (largely) of car dependence... Or, more directly, 20,000 people a year die due to malnutrition and starvation, tallied over years (as most do) that can rapidly rise to over 100k in a half-decade. The UK has an excess mortality rate of 330,000 linked to healthcare cuts (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/oct/05/over-330000-excess-deaths-in-great-britain-linked-to-austerity-finds-study https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/oct/05/over-330000...). I get that the numbers were talking about are much higher, but it doesn't follow logically to me that ordinary citizens knew that their government was the "bad" one with its actions. Hell, I know Russian families who genuinely believe Putin is doing the right thing right now. So, I don't blindly accept that my government is right just because I think "we're the goodies".
    - leonidasrup 1mo ago
      I can't comment on the state of UK healthcare, but regarding the last paragraph, I too know Russian families who genuinely believe Putin is doing the right thing right now. I know Russians who want to have nothing to do with Putin and want to live their life. I have worked with both Russians and Ukrainians who fled Russia and Ukraine to escape mobilization (Personal note: it was interesting to see how good cooperation they had).
  - Retric 1mo ago
    We blame the Soviet government for famine, but that’s not necessarily the opinion of people living at the time. Famine tended to occur every ~10 years due to natural weather variability so while 1930-1933 was unusually brutal it was just one of a very long string of famine. For example the Russian famine of 1921–1922 killed 5 million from a drought + WWI. Which was preceded by the famine of 1906-1908 which was preceded by the famine of 1901–1902, though these where less significant. Famine was so common you need extreme outliers like 1601–1603 which killed ~1/3 of the population before they tend to show up in history books.
    - leonidasrup 1mo ago
      Statement of the State Duma. April 2, 2008. The regions of the USSR (the Volga region, the Central Black Earth Region, the North Caucasus, the Urals, the Crimea, part of Western Siberia), Kazakhstan, Ukraine, and Belarus have suffered from the result of the famine caused by forced collectivization. About 7 million people were killed by hunger and illnesses associated with malnutrition in 1932–1933. This tragedy does not have and cannot have internationally established signs of genocide and should not be the subject of contemporary political speculation. Deputies of the State Duma, honoring the victims of the 1930s famine on the territory of the USSR, strongly condemn the regime that has neglected the lives of people for the achievement of economic and political goals, and proclaim the inadmissibility of the revival in the formerly included in the Soviet Union, totalitarian regimes that neglected the rights and lives of their citizens. https://web.archive.org/web/20230329195700/https://holodomormuseum.org.ua/en/recognition-of-holodomor-as-genocide-in-the-world/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230329195700/https://holodomor... "The causes of the Holodomor, which was a famine in Soviet Ukraine during 1932 and 1933 that resulted in the death of around 3–5 million people, are the subject of scholarly and political debate, particularly surrounding the Holodomor genocide question. Soviet historians Stephen Wheatcroft and J. Arch Getty believe the famine was the unintended consequence of problems arising from Soviet agricultural collectivization which was designed to accelerate the program of industrialization in the Soviet Union under Joseph Stalin. Other academics conclude policies were intentionally designed to cause the famine. Some scholars and political leaders claim that the famine may be classified as a genocide under the definition of genocide that entered international law with the 1948 Genocide Convention." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_Holodomor
- TimTheTinker 1mo ago
  > I don’t believe those living “normal lives” in East Germany or the Soviet era considered the police to be evil and invasive the way we do today. "normal life" under the Stasi was constant political terror and suppression. The death counts are low because they thought death too little of a penalty for opposing them - they used psychological warfare (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung) and torture instead. The International Rehabilitation Council for Torture Victims states that there were between 300,000 and 500,000 victims of the Stasi's use of psychological warfare, direct physical torture and gross human rights violations: https://web.archive.org/web/20210909114942/https://irct.org/media-and-resources/latest-news/article/788?ref=tjournal.ru https://web.archive.org/web/20210909114942/https://irct.org/....
  - grim_io 1mo ago
    Imagine the stories the currently ICE-detained could tell. Hunted in the streets like animals and stuck in cages, with no right to due process. Sure, not as bad. Woohoo.
    - TimTheTinker 1mo ago
      Be that as it may, observe that the directions are opposite. Planning, attempting to, or helping people escape (not stay) was the #1 reason for Stasi arrests. Specifically, the most frequent Stasi arrest charges were Republikflucht ("fleeing the republic") and Fluchthelfer ("helping others flee") Also, the Stasi ran on roughly 1 informant per 60–180 residents. Your network of friends, family, co-workers, and neighbors would have several. They officially criminalized private speech, correspondence and travel. The US surveillance system is bad, but the Stasi informant network and set of official consequences was at such a level as to cause constant fear and dread for everyone.
      - nelox 1mo ago
        Indeed. The rising flood of people feeling East for West Berlin was the very reason for the construction of the Berlin Wall.
- shevy-java 1mo ago
  > I don’t believe those living “normal lives” in East Germany or the Soviet era considered the police to be evil and invasive the way we do today. That's wrong. I am sure you do not speak German, because otherwise you'd have a lot more information available. If you do speak German, listen to Dieter Hallervorden. Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJh9ejnpvFc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJh9ejnpvFc He explained why he escaped from the DDR. And they ALL knew that the cops were sniffing on them. Of course they considered the cops as evil and invasive, even by today standards.
  - dijit 1mo ago
    But I consider what the US/UK are doing to be invasive, and if the governments fell I might be proven right (hell, Snowden already proved it over a decade ago- yet here we are). He was not a “normal person”, normal people are like your neighbour who lives simply and doesn’t engage in politics except to share their discomfort about some relatively trivial grievance like the price of eggs.
  - stirlo 1mo ago
    Is that any different to how African Americans feel about the police? Or how Latinos feel about ICE today?
- inigyou 1mo ago
  German people largely thought Hitler was the good guy and there's no way the h-caust actually happened, until several decades after the war ended.
Morromist 1mo ago
I mean its so much easier to do stuff the Stasi could only dream of with technology today.
- lukan 1mo ago
  The very big difference to the Stasi is, people back then were really afraid to speak their mind, as there were real consequences fast, for doing things as stating your opinion about ghe government. And not creating attention while saying, I cannot speak up anymore! while speaking up all the time. And yes, there are also consequences today .. but on a whole different level. So the US might head into a Stasi regime (or rather Gestapo) .. but they ain't there, not even close.
  - ceejayoz 1mo ago
    There are other big differences in the other direction, though. The Stasi couldn't have dreamed of the manpower efficiency of modern surveillance.
    - lukan 1mo ago
      On the other hand, they had on average someone in every appartment block and every company directly reporting to them and doing on request other things. The human touch of spycraft. Nowdays spying on the population is automated.
  - inigyou 1mo ago
    Is that a difference? I'm still afraid, that's why I'm using Tor.
    - lukan 1mo ago
      You are afraid to share your opinion about the government, so you have to use Tor? Oh, about that. There would have been no Tor service in the GDR.
      - 1mo ago
iAMkenough 1mo ago
What makes you qualified and informed of what’s taking place to determine that? What we hear about is far from comprehensive, and many of the atrocities won’t be unveiled or investigated until the next decade. The Epstein cover up shows they’re used to keeping secrets. I’m not sure why we’re pretending there’s not a convicted felon in charge of the entire system.
mathisfun123 1mo ago
> what the Stasi was doing the stasi were spying on people and putting them in jail. what exactly is your claim about the difference? is it a difference in distinction or a difference in degree?
- s1artibartfast 1mo ago
  If we're trying to find a difference in distinction, that has never been the case in the US. The police I've always been able to surveil and put people in jail.
kbrannigan 1mo ago
It's a very insidious, first you look all over your neighborhood flock cameras Hundreds of them came out of nowhere Nobody fought back . it's as long as you're not doing anything wrong you don't have to worry about it Then once changed the definition of what wrong means. If you're not a criminal you don't have to worry about it That's for your safety Then they changed the definition of what a crime is
- deleted 1mo ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 1mo ago
  [deleted]
- thangalin 1mo ago
  https://i.ibb.co/WWWYznHX/flock-future.png https://i.ibb.co/WWWYznHX/flock-future.png See: https://dave.autonoma.ca/blog/2019/06/06/web-of-knowledge/ https://dave.autonoma.ca/blog/2019/06/06/web-of-knowledge/
- rootusrootus 1mo ago
  This differentiates the US from who, exactly? If anything, US a latecomer to the public surveillance game.
  - RagnarD 1mo ago
    The former U.S. that was once the freest place on earth.
    - cindyllm 1mo ago
      [dead]
    - AbsurdCensor 1mo ago
      The US being the 'free-st' place on earth at anytime is quite the misnomer. Sure, you can be 'free' if you are white, wealthy, oh and land owning. Tale as old as time. Sure, you can protest, but many many other countries have far surpassed the US on that one, and have been doing it a whole lot longer.
JumpCrisscross 1mo ago
[flagged]
deleted 1mo ago
[deleted]
varispeed 1mo ago
I am pretty sure someone discussing taking people to gas chambers in 1933 would also be called having a wild take. It's where the US is heading. Fascism marches on in full swing.
- inigyou 1mo ago
  Germans didn't believe there were gas chambers until the 50s or 60s.
  - dredmorbius 1mo ago
    Which is all the more reason that discussing it in 1933 would have been viewed incredulously. Your reply only strengthens the original comment.
swsieber 1mo ago
> but they're not even in the same universe as what the Stasi was doing At what point? It's easy to say when we mention the Stasi or the Nazis that we're comparing it to the end game they had going, but the transformation was a bit of process.
wetpaws 1mo ago
[dead]
rangerelf 1mo ago
You'd be surprised. I also do find americans to be utterly naive regarding this slide towards fascism, and I live here so don't bother trying to explain it to me. You only saw the end result regarding the "universe as what the Stasi was doing", obviously you didn't pay attention to the road getting there.
- enaaem 1mo ago
  At this moment there are right wing conspiracies from people like Owens and Tucker that Charlie Kirk was killed by Israel because he was getting critical of them and would be against the war. I am not saying that these conspiracies are true, but this is how fascism looks like. Putin doesn't arrest all of his political challengers, but he gets rid of the ones that are viable opponents. In case of Kirk, he is popular enough to make it big in politics and in the short term he could break the party narrative.
alsetmusic 1mo ago
> With all due respect, this is a wild take. Things aren't great in the U.S. right now, but they're not even in the same universe as what the Stasi was doing. Don't kid yourself. That's what they want. They're slowly testing to find out how much they can get away with. Would you have imagined that the nation would quietly sit back and allow what's been done so far ten or twenty years ago? Just because there have been large protests doesn't mean anything. Congress should have been outraged on both sides at this madness, but one side only cares about winning (so they like it) and the other is completely feckless.
- hateful 1mo ago
  Winning arguments and solving problems are two different skillsets. And the US Congress is mostly people with the former. Not to say that winning arguments doesn't help when choosing a solution, but it is very different.
  - trescenzi 1mo ago
    Or “To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.” - Douglas Adams
isr 1mo ago
You're right that the US is not in the same universe as the Stasi was. The US steals more data and conducts more illicit monitoring of people in a day than the Stasi ever could in a year. Its just that the Stasi lived in an analog world, so you had lots of PHYSICAL material leftover for people to point at in faux horror. Even now, the US is busily deploying electric shock gloves whose main selling point, DIRECT FROM THE MOUTHS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT, is that they allow pain to be administered to enforce "compliance", without leaving any real evidence. And they are being trialed in Nebraska. On ... SCHOOL CHILDREN. (and to complete the dystopian joke, check out the name of the company selling these Dr Doom gloves) Whats that you hear? Howls of outrage & dissaproval from the denizens of "The Land of the Free" (tm)? Err, no. Its just the wind blowing leaves around. You sir are the proverbial frog who has been in the pan so long, he doesn't realise he's being boiled alive
unclebucknasty 1mo ago
History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes. -Mark Twain
inigyou 1mo ago
Companies like Flock and Palantir are explicitly an automated Stasi, and the advertising industry has already built another automated Stasi but it's not quite what the government wants (e.g. no ALPRs since they're useless for advertising). I challenge you on falsifiability. What evidence would it take for you admit the US is Stasi level?

dijit 1mo ago

its only with the benefit of hindsight (and being on the winning side- thus the propaganda was never dispelled) that we consider the stasi and so on the way we do. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.. might just be a duck. I don’t believe those living “normal lives” in East Germany or the Soviet era considered the police to be evil and invasive the way we do today.

leonidasrup 1mo ago
Soviet era under Stalin was brutal. Soviet famine of 1930–1933 "It is estimated that 5.7 to 8.7 million people died from starvation across the Soviet Union. In addition, 50 to 70 million Soviet citizens starved during the famine but ultimately survived." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%9333 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%93... Great Purge "Scholars estimate the death toll of the Great Purge at 700,000 to 1.2 million." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge
- dijit 1mo ago
  You might not realise it, but you're proving my point to some extent. We don't look at the deaths of our own people as "oppressive" despite the fact that the circumstances that caused them to die was our system. I'm not some bleeding heart liberal or anti-capitalist... I just have an open mind to the idea that we're not necessarily the good guys just because we are us and I look at what is factually true - as in, how could we be described by a non-sympathetic entity. Everyone is their own hero. Nobody believes sincerely that they're the baddie. Chronic lower respiratory diseases account for 145k people a year in the US, and that is a consequence (largely) of car dependence... Or, more directly, 20,000 people a year die due to malnutrition and starvation, tallied over years (as most do) that can rapidly rise to over 100k in a half-decade. The UK has an excess mortality rate of 330,000 linked to healthcare cuts (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/oct/05/over-330000-excess-deaths-in-great-britain-linked-to-austerity-finds-study https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/oct/05/over-330000...). I get that the numbers were talking about are much higher, but it doesn't follow logically to me that ordinary citizens knew that their government was the "bad" one with its actions. Hell, I know Russian families who genuinely believe Putin is doing the right thing right now. So, I don't blindly accept that my government is right just because I think "we're the goodies".
  - leonidasrup 1mo ago
    I can't comment on the state of UK healthcare, but regarding the last paragraph, I too know Russian families who genuinely believe Putin is doing the right thing right now. I know Russians who want to have nothing to do with Putin and want to live their life. I have worked with both Russians and Ukrainians who fled Russia and Ukraine to escape mobilization (Personal note: it was interesting to see how good cooperation they had).
- Retric 1mo ago
  We blame the Soviet government for famine, but that’s not necessarily the opinion of people living at the time. Famine tended to occur every ~10 years due to natural weather variability so while 1930-1933 was unusually brutal it was just one of a very long string of famine. For example the Russian famine of 1921–1922 killed 5 million from a drought + WWI. Which was preceded by the famine of 1906-1908 which was preceded by the famine of 1901–1902, though these where less significant. Famine was so common you need extreme outliers like 1601–1603 which killed ~1/3 of the population before they tend to show up in history books.
  - leonidasrup 1mo ago
    Statement of the State Duma. April 2, 2008. The regions of the USSR (the Volga region, the Central Black Earth Region, the North Caucasus, the Urals, the Crimea, part of Western Siberia), Kazakhstan, Ukraine, and Belarus have suffered from the result of the famine caused by forced collectivization. About 7 million people were killed by hunger and illnesses associated with malnutrition in 1932–1933. This tragedy does not have and cannot have internationally established signs of genocide and should not be the subject of contemporary political speculation. Deputies of the State Duma, honoring the victims of the 1930s famine on the territory of the USSR, strongly condemn the regime that has neglected the lives of people for the achievement of economic and political goals, and proclaim the inadmissibility of the revival in the formerly included in the Soviet Union, totalitarian regimes that neglected the rights and lives of their citizens. https://web.archive.org/web/20230329195700/https://holodomormuseum.org.ua/en/recognition-of-holodomor-as-genocide-in-the-world/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230329195700/https://holodomor... "The causes of the Holodomor, which was a famine in Soviet Ukraine during 1932 and 1933 that resulted in the death of around 3–5 million people, are the subject of scholarly and political debate, particularly surrounding the Holodomor genocide question. Soviet historians Stephen Wheatcroft and J. Arch Getty believe the famine was the unintended consequence of problems arising from Soviet agricultural collectivization which was designed to accelerate the program of industrialization in the Soviet Union under Joseph Stalin. Other academics conclude policies were intentionally designed to cause the famine. Some scholars and political leaders claim that the famine may be classified as a genocide under the definition of genocide that entered international law with the 1948 Genocide Convention." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_Holodomor
TimTheTinker 1mo ago
> I don’t believe those living “normal lives” in East Germany or the Soviet era considered the police to be evil and invasive the way we do today. "normal life" under the Stasi was constant political terror and suppression. The death counts are low because they thought death too little of a penalty for opposing them - they used psychological warfare (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung) and torture instead. The International Rehabilitation Council for Torture Victims states that there were between 300,000 and 500,000 victims of the Stasi's use of psychological warfare, direct physical torture and gross human rights violations: https://web.archive.org/web/20210909114942/https://irct.org/media-and-resources/latest-news/article/788?ref=tjournal.ru https://web.archive.org/web/20210909114942/https://irct.org/....
- grim_io 1mo ago
  Imagine the stories the currently ICE-detained could tell. Hunted in the streets like animals and stuck in cages, with no right to due process. Sure, not as bad. Woohoo.
  - TimTheTinker 1mo ago
    Be that as it may, observe that the directions are opposite. Planning, attempting to, or helping people escape (not stay) was the #1 reason for Stasi arrests. Specifically, the most frequent Stasi arrest charges were Republikflucht ("fleeing the republic") and Fluchthelfer ("helping others flee") Also, the Stasi ran on roughly 1 informant per 60–180 residents. Your network of friends, family, co-workers, and neighbors would have several. They officially criminalized private speech, correspondence and travel. The US surveillance system is bad, but the Stasi informant network and set of official consequences was at such a level as to cause constant fear and dread for everyone.
    - nelox 1mo ago
      Indeed. The rising flood of people feeling East for West Berlin was the very reason for the construction of the Berlin Wall.
shevy-java 1mo ago
> I don’t believe those living “normal lives” in East Germany or the Soviet era considered the police to be evil and invasive the way we do today. That's wrong. I am sure you do not speak German, because otherwise you'd have a lot more information available. If you do speak German, listen to Dieter Hallervorden. Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJh9ejnpvFc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJh9ejnpvFc He explained why he escaped from the DDR. And they ALL knew that the cops were sniffing on them. Of course they considered the cops as evil and invasive, even by today standards.
- dijit 1mo ago
  But I consider what the US/UK are doing to be invasive, and if the governments fell I might be proven right (hell, Snowden already proved it over a decade ago- yet here we are). He was not a “normal person”, normal people are like your neighbour who lives simply and doesn’t engage in politics except to share their discomfort about some relatively trivial grievance like the price of eggs.
- stirlo 1mo ago
  Is that any different to how African Americans feel about the police? Or how Latinos feel about ICE today?
inigyou 1mo ago
German people largely thought Hitler was the good guy and there's no way the h-caust actually happened, until several decades after the war ended.

Morromist 1mo ago

I mean its so much easier to do stuff the Stasi could only dream of with technology today.

lukan 1mo ago
The very big difference to the Stasi is, people back then were really afraid to speak their mind, as there were real consequences fast, for doing things as stating your opinion about ghe government. And not creating attention while saying, I cannot speak up anymore! while speaking up all the time. And yes, there are also consequences today .. but on a whole different level. So the US might head into a Stasi regime (or rather Gestapo) .. but they ain't there, not even close.
- ceejayoz 1mo ago
  There are other big differences in the other direction, though. The Stasi couldn't have dreamed of the manpower efficiency of modern surveillance.
  - lukan 1mo ago
    On the other hand, they had on average someone in every appartment block and every company directly reporting to them and doing on request other things. The human touch of spycraft. Nowdays spying on the population is automated.
- inigyou 1mo ago
  Is that a difference? I'm still afraid, that's why I'm using Tor.
  - lukan 1mo ago
    You are afraid to share your opinion about the government, so you have to use Tor? Oh, about that. There would have been no Tor service in the GDR.
    - 1mo ago

iAMkenough 1mo ago

What makes you qualified and informed of what’s taking place to determine that? What we hear about is far from comprehensive, and many of the atrocities won’t be unveiled or investigated until the next decade. The Epstein cover up shows they’re used to keeping secrets. I’m not sure why we’re pretending there’s not a convicted felon in charge of the entire system.

mathisfun123 1mo ago

> what the Stasi was doing the stasi were spying on people and putting them in jail. what exactly is your claim about the difference? is it a difference in distinction or a difference in degree?

s1artibartfast 1mo ago
If we're trying to find a difference in distinction, that has never been the case in the US. The police I've always been able to surveil and put people in jail.

kbrannigan 1mo ago

It's a very insidious, first you look all over your neighborhood flock cameras Hundreds of them came out of nowhere Nobody fought back . it's as long as you're not doing anything wrong you don't have to worry about it Then once changed the definition of what wrong means. If you're not a criminal you don't have to worry about it That's for your safety Then they changed the definition of what a crime is

deleted 1mo ago
[deleted]
deleted 1mo ago
[deleted]
thangalin 1mo ago
https://i.ibb.co/WWWYznHX/flock-future.png https://i.ibb.co/WWWYznHX/flock-future.png See: https://dave.autonoma.ca/blog/2019/06/06/web-of-knowledge/ https://dave.autonoma.ca/blog/2019/06/06/web-of-knowledge/
rootusrootus 1mo ago
This differentiates the US from who, exactly? If anything, US a latecomer to the public surveillance game.
- RagnarD 1mo ago
  The former U.S. that was once the freest place on earth.
  - cindyllm 1mo ago
    [dead]
  - AbsurdCensor 1mo ago
    The US being the 'free-st' place on earth at anytime is quite the misnomer. Sure, you can be 'free' if you are white, wealthy, oh and land owning. Tale as old as time. Sure, you can protest, but many many other countries have far surpassed the US on that one, and have been doing it a whole lot longer.

JumpCrisscross 1mo ago

[flagged]

deleted 1mo ago

[deleted]

varispeed 1mo ago

I am pretty sure someone discussing taking people to gas chambers in 1933 would also be called having a wild take. It's where the US is heading. Fascism marches on in full swing.

inigyou 1mo ago
Germans didn't believe there were gas chambers until the 50s or 60s.
- dredmorbius 1mo ago
  Which is all the more reason that discussing it in 1933 would have been viewed incredulously. Your reply only strengthens the original comment.

swsieber 1mo ago

> but they're not even in the same universe as what the Stasi was doing At what point? It's easy to say when we mention the Stasi or the Nazis that we're comparing it to the end game they had going, but the transformation was a bit of process.

wetpaws 1mo ago

[dead]

rangerelf 1mo ago

You'd be surprised. I also do find americans to be utterly naive regarding this slide towards fascism, and I live here so don't bother trying to explain it to me. You only saw the end result regarding the "universe as what the Stasi was doing", obviously you didn't pay attention to the road getting there.

enaaem 1mo ago
At this moment there are right wing conspiracies from people like Owens and Tucker that Charlie Kirk was killed by Israel because he was getting critical of them and would be against the war. I am not saying that these conspiracies are true, but this is how fascism looks like. Putin doesn't arrest all of his political challengers, but he gets rid of the ones that are viable opponents. In case of Kirk, he is popular enough to make it big in politics and in the short term he could break the party narrative.

alsetmusic 1mo ago

> With all due respect, this is a wild take. Things aren't great in the U.S. right now, but they're not even in the same universe as what the Stasi was doing. Don't kid yourself. That's what they want. They're slowly testing to find out how much they can get away with. Would you have imagined that the nation would quietly sit back and allow what's been done so far ten or twenty years ago? Just because there have been large protests doesn't mean anything. Congress should have been outraged on both sides at this madness, but one side only cares about winning (so they like it) and the other is completely feckless.

hateful 1mo ago
Winning arguments and solving problems are two different skillsets. And the US Congress is mostly people with the former. Not to say that winning arguments doesn't help when choosing a solution, but it is very different.
- trescenzi 1mo ago
  Or “To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.” - Douglas Adams

isr 1mo ago

You're right that the US is not in the same universe as the Stasi was. The US steals more data and conducts more illicit monitoring of people in a day than the Stasi ever could in a year. Its just that the Stasi lived in an analog world, so you had lots of PHYSICAL material leftover for people to point at in faux horror. Even now, the US is busily deploying electric shock gloves whose main selling point, DIRECT FROM THE MOUTHS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT, is that they allow pain to be administered to enforce "compliance", without leaving any real evidence. And they are being trialed in Nebraska. On ... SCHOOL CHILDREN. (and to complete the dystopian joke, check out the name of the company selling these Dr Doom gloves) Whats that you hear? Howls of outrage & dissaproval from the denizens of "The Land of the Free" (tm)? Err, no. Its just the wind blowing leaves around. You sir are the proverbial frog who has been in the pan so long, he doesn't realise he's being boiled alive

unclebucknasty 1mo ago

History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes. -Mark Twain

inigyou 1mo ago

Companies like Flock and Palantir are explicitly an automated Stasi, and the advertising industry has already built another automated Stasi but it's not quite what the government wants (e.g. no ALPRs since they're useless for advertising). I challenge you on falsifiability. What evidence would it take for you admit the US is Stasi level?