3 ms·

Unfortunately, paying money to an economy of a country which started and still wages an unprovoked war against another country, killing civilians indiscriminate

by jwr 2mo ago

Unfortunately, paying money to an economy of a country which started and still wages an unprovoked war against another country, killing civilians indiscriminately, is a choice. The only reason you can "focus on building great software" is because you are not in Ukraine, where Russian bombs paid for by the aforementioned Russian economy would be falling on your head. Not to mention the problematic nature of trusting any data coming from a country known for state-sponsored deception, trolling and organized operations in informational warfare. (to the inevitable whatabouters: yes, this can also be applied to other economies/countries, everyone makes their own moral choices on where to draw the line, but the line should be drawn somewhere) I am saddened by your stubborn stance on this.

freediver 2mo ago
I actually do know what it’s like to have bombs falling on my head. I lived in Serbia during the US-led bombing in 1999. I continued using US company products during and afterward, and eventually moved to the United States, while many of my fellow countrymen drew a line similar to yours. I never felt that companies or individuals elsewhere owed me a boycott on my behalf. That experience shaped my reluctance to treat commercial relationships as endorsements of governments or their actions. I acknowledge everyone draws their own moral line. I respect where you’ve drawn yours, and I ask for the same consideration in return. I don’t think either of us is going to change the other’s mind, so I’ll leave it here. I genuinely appreciate that you care enough about Kagi to have this conversation.
- cuu508 2mo ago
  > I don’t think either of us is going to change the other’s mind, so I’ll leave it here. So so so disappointing.
  - Barbing 2mo ago
    Keep the argument going if you can! He didn’t boycott USA when we bombed him. What’s gonna convince him? Maybe someone has the words.
    - lostlogin 2mo ago
      If the option existed to remove various sources for search results (for me, Yandex, and hopefully any payment to them) existed, I’d be back. I was more tolerant of my money going to US companies when I first tried Kagi, but my views have shifted a lot in the last year or so. US actions have shifted in recent times, and it’s just foolish belligerence now. There was a bit of nuance in the past but at present it doesn’t even serve US interests.
      - Barbing 2mo ago
        Good idea. Not prioritized it seems: https://kagifeedback.org/d/4727-option-to-choose-or-exclude-specific-external-indexes https://kagifeedback.org/d/4727-option-to-choose-or-exclude-...
    - tokai 2mo ago
      Serbia deserved it for the genocide they were perpetrating.
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
- select1 2mo ago
  This is deeply disappointing.
- tokai 2mo ago
  What is it with Serbians and always supporting war crimes and genocide? Serbia deserved to be bombed (and more), your argument does not work.
  - gnomewascool 2mo ago
    Writing as an internet rando (to another?): please don't make such comments. Phrasing it as "X deserved to be bombed" is needlessly inflammatory. I agree that something had to be done and that given the choice between inaction like in Bosnia and the NATO intervention like we for Kosovo, I'd easily pick the latter. It's even plausible that the NATO intervention was close to the best that could be done and any harm was a "necessary evil". However, saying that the civilian population of the undemocratic Yugoslav state deserved to have their lives disrupted by being bombed (or worse??) is just cruel. I don't think your comment will convince the previous poster or (most importantly) unrelated third parties. (For the record: the implicit comparison between the Russian invasion of the Ukraine and the NATO intervention in Serbia, by the previous poster _is_ IMO deeply dismaying.)
- KagiSucks 2mo ago
  [flagged]
zapzupnz 2mo ago
> Not to mention the problematic nature of trusting any data coming from a country known for state-sponsored deception, trolling and organized operations in informational warfare. What, like the United States of America? I find it so odd that people think Kagi's commercial agreement with Yandex is more offensive than theirs with Google or Microsoft, both of whom have contracts with the US military. Surely they're equally as abhorrent, particularly the use of their AI models for combat warfare purposes. > (to the inevitable whatabouters: yes, this can also be applied to other economies/countries, everyone makes their own moral choices on where to draw the line, but the line should be drawn somewhere) Genuinely curious: on the correct side of your personal line, what services do you now use that replace Kagi? Presumably they'd be EU-based, like Qwant or Ecosia?

by jwr 2mo ago

freediver 2mo ago

I actually do know what it’s like to have bombs falling on my head. I lived in Serbia during the US-led bombing in 1999. I continued using US company products during and afterward, and eventually moved to the United States, while many of my fellow countrymen drew a line similar to yours. I never felt that companies or individuals elsewhere owed me a boycott on my behalf. That experience shaped my reluctance to treat commercial relationships as endorsements of governments or their actions. I acknowledge everyone draws their own moral line. I respect where you’ve drawn yours, and I ask for the same consideration in return. I don’t think either of us is going to change the other’s mind, so I’ll leave it here. I genuinely appreciate that you care enough about Kagi to have this conversation.

cuu508 2mo ago
> I don’t think either of us is going to change the other’s mind, so I’ll leave it here. So so so disappointing.
- Barbing 2mo ago
  Keep the argument going if you can! He didn’t boycott USA when we bombed him. What’s gonna convince him? Maybe someone has the words.
  - lostlogin 2mo ago
    If the option existed to remove various sources for search results (for me, Yandex, and hopefully any payment to them) existed, I’d be back. I was more tolerant of my money going to US companies when I first tried Kagi, but my views have shifted a lot in the last year or so. US actions have shifted in recent times, and it’s just foolish belligerence now. There was a bit of nuance in the past but at present it doesn’t even serve US interests.
    - Barbing 2mo ago
      Good idea. Not prioritized it seems: https://kagifeedback.org/d/4727-option-to-choose-or-exclude-specific-external-indexes https://kagifeedback.org/d/4727-option-to-choose-or-exclude-...
  - tokai 2mo ago
    Serbia deserved it for the genocide they were perpetrating.
deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
select1 2mo ago
This is deeply disappointing.
tokai 2mo ago
What is it with Serbians and always supporting war crimes and genocide? Serbia deserved to be bombed (and more), your argument does not work.
- gnomewascool 2mo ago
  Writing as an internet rando (to another?): please don't make such comments. Phrasing it as "X deserved to be bombed" is needlessly inflammatory. I agree that something had to be done and that given the choice between inaction like in Bosnia and the NATO intervention like we for Kosovo, I'd easily pick the latter. It's even plausible that the NATO intervention was close to the best that could be done and any harm was a "necessary evil". However, saying that the civilian population of the undemocratic Yugoslav state deserved to have their lives disrupted by being bombed (or worse??) is just cruel. I don't think your comment will convince the previous poster or (most importantly) unrelated third parties. (For the record: the implicit comparison between the Russian invasion of the Ukraine and the NATO intervention in Serbia, by the previous poster _is_ IMO deeply dismaying.)
KagiSucks 2mo ago
[flagged]

zapzupnz 2mo ago

> Not to mention the problematic nature of trusting any data coming from a country known for state-sponsored deception, trolling and organized operations in informational warfare. What, like the United States of America? I find it so odd that people think Kagi's commercial agreement with Yandex is more offensive than theirs with Google or Microsoft, both of whom have contracts with the US military. Surely they're equally as abhorrent, particularly the use of their AI models for combat warfare purposes. > (to the inevitable whatabouters: yes, this can also be applied to other economies/countries, everyone makes their own moral choices on where to draw the line, but the line should be drawn somewhere) Genuinely curious: on the correct side of your personal line, what services do you now use that replace Kagi? Presumably they'd be EU-based, like Qwant or Ecosia?