3 ms·

Yet another case that will waste the court's time and money. All this is doing is keeping defense lawyers pocket's lined. At this point, people should buy a b

by jmclnx 2mo ago

Yet another case that will waste the court's time and money. All this is doing is keeping defense lawyers pocket's lined. At this point, people should buy a burner phone when going to/from the US. In that phone only have a couple of phone numbers and that's it.

Sharlin 2mo ago
Oh, they may well give you bad time if your phone looks like a burner with too little content.
- skinfaxi 2mo ago
  If you are a citizen like this person is then you can tell them to fuck off, they can keep the phone, and they have to let you in.
  - nucleardog 2mo ago
    They have to let you in. Doesn't mean they have to let you roam the country freely. They can just send you to some form of detention.
    - iamnothere 2mo ago
      That isn’t true. They can detain you briefly for questioning at the border, but if there is no crime then you will be released. Feel free to dig into historical court cases about border detention if you disagree. If you get charged with a crime, things are very different.
      - nucleardog 2mo ago
        Nope, no disagreement. I just see your take as very optimistic. There is no court at the border. If the agent decides you're going to jail, you're going to jail. The decision may be reversed/corrected after, but it's still going to be a big, expensive problem for you and you _are_ going to be detained for a time. Not to mention walking up with an empty phone and telling the agent to "fuck off" when they ask about it sure sounds eerily similar to the facts of the case in the linked article. I'd wager that's a good way to land an obstruction charge.
        iamnothere 2mo ago
        If the abuse is egregious, you have a decent chance of pro bono representation or a lawsuit payout. In any case, activism comes with personal risk, and part of activism is accepting that risk while attempting to protect others. (This person was an activist, and it’s likely that they wanted to confine the damage to themselves.) For the second part, having an empty phone is not a crime, and being arrested for this would be a major scandal. The tech press and political outlets would be all over it. It’s generally a good idea to avoid directly antagonizing border guards, though.
        skinfaxi 2mo ago
        > I'd wager that's a good way to land an obstruction charge. What are you even on about? Having a blank phone is obstruction?
    - laughing_man 2mo ago
      They can hold you for a few hours while they investigate, but they can't just arbitrarily detain you without a legal basis.
- iamnothere 2mo ago
  If you are a citizen it doesn’t matter. They have to let you in.
  - ydat 2mo ago
    Wouldn’t be the first time the US government grossly abused its own citizens and violated their rights
    - iamnothere 2mo ago
      And yet this distant possibility doesn’t seem to happen very often to citizens, as long as we still have courts. Not that actual abuses should be trivialized. This comes across as fearmongering to keep people from protecting themselves.
  - lovich 2mo ago
    According to this admin due process is only for citizens, and since we’ve claimed you aren’t a citizen you have no due process to prove otherwise.
    - iamnothere 2mo ago
      So what, don’t do anything to protect yourself because there’s no hope? Give up? Believe it or not, due process still generally exists and most people still benefit from taking precautions to protect themselves. That’s not to imply that things are great or that we aren’t in a time of declining civil liberties. Seriously, there is something wrong with privacy doomers.
      - lovich 2mo ago
        I was pointing out how due process is no longer the iron clad protection under this current admin as they have just redefined who gets due process. You can, and should, try to protect yourself as much as possible. That still doesn’t change the fact that the current admin will just ignore the rule of law and ship you off to a third party country because they decided they didn’t like you. I have other opinions on what you should do in the face of a government that doesn’t follow the rule of law but I will be banned from this website if I state them out loud.
- bdangubic 2mo ago
  They won't unless you are already on "their list" My phone basically looks like a burner phone, I do not use social media, do not install apps, my iphone fits (with room to spare) all "apps" on a "single page." I just call and text from my phone and have a browser and maps and that is basically it.
- GJim 2mo ago
  > Oh, they may well give you bad time if your phone looks like a burner with too little content. Issuing 'burner phones' and laptops to staff visiting countries such as China or the USA is now SOP for many companies handling sensitive data, including mine. Don't think this isn't unusual.
  - iamnothere 2mo ago
    Exactly, these people making shit up about border crossings are either doing so in bad faith or haven’t done a lot of international business travel.
- nucleardog 2mo ago
  This is not... advice. But if anyone's actually going to do this, the method that's worked for me... A couple weeks before your trip, factory reset whatever burner phone you're planning on using and swap your SIM card over. Install a few basic apps you wouldn't mind them looking through. Enable hotspot/tethering, and connect your other phone via Wi-Fi. For a couple of weeks, use the burner as much as you can with what is available on it. When you're driving, us the maps app for GPS. Make and receive some calls, ignore some spam calls. Read the news. Get a few inane text messages conversations going, etc. When you travel, leave your regular phone at home and take the burner. When it's searched at the border, it has enough activity to pass most initial smell tests. If asked, you dropped your other phone and didn't have time to get it fixed before your trip, this is one a friend lent you. This has worked for me. Never _actually_ into anything illegal, but just apparently had a suspicious vibe about me or something because every time I crossed the border into or out of the country I was spending 4-5 hours getting searched. Didn't need someone going through my entire life going back decades every time--once was enough.
ramgine 2mo ago
Think it’s better to travel without a phone at all and buy one when arriving in the us? Problematic I guess with everything being digital
- hamper653 2mo ago
  It has been standard practice for some time now in some European companies.
- 59nadir 2mo ago
  If you can, just avoid ever entering the US at all.
- laughing_man 2mo ago
  The last time I tried to do that on a trip to Germany, admittedly many years ago, I found I could not get phone service without a local address.
- hylaride 2mo ago
  Years ago I chatted with a border guard from another country about their job (while they were not working). Not having a phone nowadays would be considered "strange" enough to flag you. If you're not a citizen of said country, it could even dramatically increase the odds of disallowing you entry. Often this would prevent you returning for a set number of years. At the end of the day, it's always best to just not have anything "bad" on your devices. People have been caught up for all numbers of "innocent" reasons (pictures of their kids in the bathtub, ancient photos in their albums of themselves doing illegal things such as drugs or underage drinking, text messages or browser history disparaging politicians the border guard may support, porn in your history) that can give a border guard in a bad mood good reason to ruin your day. I personally don't want my phone data hoovered in and analyzed or marked, even though I don't really have anything to hide. I don't care enough to do anything about it, but if I did I would probably have a second travel phone with a curated amount of data, apps, accounts, etc.
iamnothere 2mo ago
Also, you might accidentally drop your burner in the lake/ocean before you return. It happens!
deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
hamper653 2mo ago
> At this point, people should buy a burner phone when going to/from the US. At this point? This has been standard practice for a while now.
laughing_man 2mo ago
I'm a bit mystified why anyone would bring an electronic device over an international border with anything that could be construed, fairly or not, as evidence of criminal behavior.

by jmclnx 2mo ago

Sharlin 2mo ago

Oh, they may well give you bad time if your phone looks like a burner with too little content.

skinfaxi 2mo ago
If you are a citizen like this person is then you can tell them to fuck off, they can keep the phone, and they have to let you in.
- nucleardog 2mo ago
  They have to let you in. Doesn't mean they have to let you roam the country freely. They can just send you to some form of detention.
  - iamnothere 2mo ago
    That isn’t true. They can detain you briefly for questioning at the border, but if there is no crime then you will be released. Feel free to dig into historical court cases about border detention if you disagree. If you get charged with a crime, things are very different.
    - nucleardog 2mo ago
      Nope, no disagreement. I just see your take as very optimistic. There is no court at the border. If the agent decides you're going to jail, you're going to jail. The decision may be reversed/corrected after, but it's still going to be a big, expensive problem for you and you _are_ going to be detained for a time. Not to mention walking up with an empty phone and telling the agent to "fuck off" when they ask about it sure sounds eerily similar to the facts of the case in the linked article. I'd wager that's a good way to land an obstruction charge.
      - iamnothere 2mo ago
        If the abuse is egregious, you have a decent chance of pro bono representation or a lawsuit payout. In any case, activism comes with personal risk, and part of activism is accepting that risk while attempting to protect others. (This person was an activist, and it’s likely that they wanted to confine the damage to themselves.) For the second part, having an empty phone is not a crime, and being arrested for this would be a major scandal. The tech press and political outlets would be all over it. It’s generally a good idea to avoid directly antagonizing border guards, though.
      - skinfaxi 2mo ago
        > I'd wager that's a good way to land an obstruction charge. What are you even on about? Having a blank phone is obstruction?
  - laughing_man 2mo ago
    They can hold you for a few hours while they investigate, but they can't just arbitrarily detain you without a legal basis.
iamnothere 2mo ago
If you are a citizen it doesn’t matter. They have to let you in.
- ydat 2mo ago
  Wouldn’t be the first time the US government grossly abused its own citizens and violated their rights
  - iamnothere 2mo ago
    And yet this distant possibility doesn’t seem to happen very often to citizens, as long as we still have courts. Not that actual abuses should be trivialized. This comes across as fearmongering to keep people from protecting themselves.
- lovich 2mo ago
  According to this admin due process is only for citizens, and since we’ve claimed you aren’t a citizen you have no due process to prove otherwise.
  - iamnothere 2mo ago
    So what, don’t do anything to protect yourself because there’s no hope? Give up? Believe it or not, due process still generally exists and most people still benefit from taking precautions to protect themselves. That’s not to imply that things are great or that we aren’t in a time of declining civil liberties. Seriously, there is something wrong with privacy doomers.
    - lovich 2mo ago
      I was pointing out how due process is no longer the iron clad protection under this current admin as they have just redefined who gets due process. You can, and should, try to protect yourself as much as possible. That still doesn’t change the fact that the current admin will just ignore the rule of law and ship you off to a third party country because they decided they didn’t like you. I have other opinions on what you should do in the face of a government that doesn’t follow the rule of law but I will be banned from this website if I state them out loud.
bdangubic 2mo ago
They won't unless you are already on "their list" My phone basically looks like a burner phone, I do not use social media, do not install apps, my iphone fits (with room to spare) all "apps" on a "single page." I just call and text from my phone and have a browser and maps and that is basically it.
GJim 2mo ago
> Oh, they may well give you bad time if your phone looks like a burner with too little content. Issuing 'burner phones' and laptops to staff visiting countries such as China or the USA is now SOP for many companies handling sensitive data, including mine. Don't think this isn't unusual.
- iamnothere 2mo ago
  Exactly, these people making shit up about border crossings are either doing so in bad faith or haven’t done a lot of international business travel.
nucleardog 2mo ago
This is not... advice. But if anyone's actually going to do this, the method that's worked for me... A couple weeks before your trip, factory reset whatever burner phone you're planning on using and swap your SIM card over. Install a few basic apps you wouldn't mind them looking through. Enable hotspot/tethering, and connect your other phone via Wi-Fi. For a couple of weeks, use the burner as much as you can with what is available on it. When you're driving, us the maps app for GPS. Make and receive some calls, ignore some spam calls. Read the news. Get a few inane text messages conversations going, etc. When you travel, leave your regular phone at home and take the burner. When it's searched at the border, it has enough activity to pass most initial smell tests. If asked, you dropped your other phone and didn't have time to get it fixed before your trip, this is one a friend lent you. This has worked for me. Never _actually_ into anything illegal, but just apparently had a suspicious vibe about me or something because every time I crossed the border into or out of the country I was spending 4-5 hours getting searched. Didn't need someone going through my entire life going back decades every time--once was enough.

ramgine 2mo ago

Think it’s better to travel without a phone at all and buy one when arriving in the us? Problematic I guess with everything being digital

hamper653 2mo ago
It has been standard practice for some time now in some European companies.
59nadir 2mo ago
If you can, just avoid ever entering the US at all.
laughing_man 2mo ago
The last time I tried to do that on a trip to Germany, admittedly many years ago, I found I could not get phone service without a local address.
hylaride 2mo ago
Years ago I chatted with a border guard from another country about their job (while they were not working). Not having a phone nowadays would be considered "strange" enough to flag you. If you're not a citizen of said country, it could even dramatically increase the odds of disallowing you entry. Often this would prevent you returning for a set number of years. At the end of the day, it's always best to just not have anything "bad" on your devices. People have been caught up for all numbers of "innocent" reasons (pictures of their kids in the bathtub, ancient photos in their albums of themselves doing illegal things such as drugs or underage drinking, text messages or browser history disparaging politicians the border guard may support, porn in your history) that can give a border guard in a bad mood good reason to ruin your day. I personally don't want my phone data hoovered in and analyzed or marked, even though I don't really have anything to hide. I don't care enough to do anything about it, but if I did I would probably have a second travel phone with a curated amount of data, apps, accounts, etc.

iamnothere 2mo ago

Also, you might accidentally drop your burner in the lake/ocean before you return. It happens!

deleted 2mo ago

[deleted]

hamper653 2mo ago

> At this point, people should buy a burner phone when going to/from the US. At this point? This has been standard practice for a while now.

laughing_man 2mo ago

I'm a bit mystified why anyone would bring an electronic device over an international border with anything that could be construed, fairly or not, as evidence of criminal behavior.