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I don’t understand this mentality which I see over and over again on here. It’s not like the US frontier labs are beacons of morality and transparency. It’s al

I don’t understand this mentality which I see over and over again on here. It’s not like the US frontier labs are beacons of morality and transparency. It’s also pretty accepted within this community that a lot of data fed to US tech companies ends up with the Israeli government. Meanwhile the current US government headed by Donny Tango has done a very thorough job of proving itself to be about as predictable and dependable as a rabid dog on crack. Throughout the events which have transpired since a certain orange charlatan took office it is objectively true that the Chinese government has portrayed itself as a much more stable and sane entity. We really need to stop this elitism and recognise the reality.

maxdo 1mo ago
[flagged]
- jdiaz97 1mo ago
  it's not China that is protecting the Epstein class btw
  - no-name-here 1mo ago
    1. In the US on that item, it's ~50/50 or whatever. 2. In China, aren't even the biggest business leaders, the most famous celebrities, etc. simply "disappeared" if they won't support the party-line? Or even being "disappeared" for something like accusing a former vice-premier of sexual assault? For example, the BBC headline/article "Why do Chinese billionaires keep vanishing?"
    - jdiaz97 1mo ago
      is that your metric for china bad, billionaires disappearing?
      - no-name-here 1mo ago
        1. I'm generally against any countries "disappearing" anyone, including western countries - and my parent comment explicitly said that it happened to more than just billionaires - famous artists and actors were also disappeared, and the person I mentioned being disappeared for accusing an official of sexual assault was a top female athlete. 2. But if a country is willing to regularly "disappear" the highest profile members of society, they probably are not going to be too concerned about "disappearing" significantly larger groups of ordinary people, poor people, etc. who are willing to verbally disagree with the government, agreed? Or who are an ethnic minority like the Uyghurs. 3. I don't understand your "china bad" comment though - if the US was disappearing billionaires (or celebs/artists/athletes or whomever) if they wouldn't agree with Trump, would you have similarly said "is that your metric for 'america bad', disappearing people for not agreeing with the government?"?
      - deleted 1mo ago
        [deleted]
      - maxdo 1mo ago
        I posted above why china is bad, it's yes people disappearing, and sponsoring anyone who tries do destabilize current world , and hence fueling the war, North Korea, Iran, Russia is on that list of their proxies.
  - hersko 1mo ago
    What exactly is "the Epstein class"?
- ClikeX 1mo ago
  > Chinas national policy is to destroy everyone’s life using espionage, bribery etc . They frame lack of morality as strength. And that differs from US foreign policy, how?
  - jdiaz97 1mo ago
    the US has threatened to invade 15 countries in 2026, including ally countries (Denmark and Canada) Israel (with US money) is attacking Gaza, Cisjordania, Lebanon, Iran, Syria, now threatening Turkey and Egypt. But yeah, China bad I guess
    - throwawa71973 1mo ago
      [flagged]
      - jdiaz97 1mo ago
        I mentioned more than Iran
    - maxdo 1mo ago
      Some of it is miss information ( Turkey), some of it simply never happened. US is not dictatorship, one blah blah person(trum) can't do everything he wants. Real military conflicts you mentioned are direct impact of chinese policies. They willing to fuel any evil government unless they are against west. Without Iran doing proxy wars middle east would be at peace. Now the dry results of China VS US policies in regions since modern communist china establishment. What their policy produce. cause-and-effect relationships 101. What Evil China produce , and how that's related even to some invasions your mentioned. General overview : The post world war II period was the most peaceful time in modern history, leaded by US policies. with some mistakes like vietnam. but China did the same mistake and invaded Vietnam too anyways. Right now china goes into power. what their policies , their world looks like? Korea. Their first action. Direct military invasion by Mao. The Result: terrorist state, that officially supports stealing, human trafficking, selling drugs, arms to middle east etc. It now directly destroying part of Europe sending giant, not precise ballistic missiles, that killing children , woman etc. the also send troops to kill more europeans, just because Putin paid them some money. North Korea would not exist without china nor from inception, nor up until recently. Due to that support we also have one extra nuclear country who's will even the most evil one will be blindly followed by their people. The opposite of is ... South Korea, that brings to the world peace, technology, cars, phones. Poster child of china's policies vs poster child of USA policies. Next Poster child is Iran. Iran would not survive without China's support neither economically neither technology wise. Iran supports tons of proxies in middle east. Creating entire instability in the region, fueling number of wars. They killing their own people who are not happy with the government, and attacking everyone around taking entire world as a hostage. Also involved in all shady operations. Spreading arms, including drones, infamous Shaheds that killed so many people in Europe. China provide all equipment from military to cellphone so that body government can control and kill everyone who disagree with their policies. Compare that to USA policies, who removed major threads like Iraq who invaded countries around. Moving forward : Poster child russia. Russia would not survive it's war without China's support. And now it sending drones with China's made electronics to number of countries of Europe. The opposite ? USA supported Ukraine, and Russia lost it power in war-torn Siria and right now finally there is some shaky peace over there. To me it's very obvious what china produces as a government. USA is ugly reacting trying to save the world from another half crazy government that is trying to create nuclear weapons. The free world needs a new super power to protect themself probably, since we have an evil super power like china. Unfortunately, usa can't protect free world anymore.
- rkuska 1mo ago
  Are you sure you are not talking about CIA?
  - rithdmc 1mo ago
    Careful, you don't want to be Operation Gladio'd.
- 9dev 1mo ago
  > Hungary , The Hungary that JD Vance tried to influence elections in, in favour of an autocratic asshole that peddles antisemitism and FUD regarding Ukraine? > Canada, The Canada currently harassed by the sad joke of a POTUS with a trade war? > half of the Africa , The half hit by Ebola with retracted USAID, or the other half? Like that one that includes South Africa, the only African country the USA grants asylum right now--to white farmers over racism concerns? Or the half including Sudan or the Kongo, ravaged by civil war, enabled with American weapons and strategic neglect? > war in Ukraine , The war enabled by no-one but the USA's support for Russia? Remember the red carpets for Putin? > North Korea , You mean the country that only exists because of the USA's Korean War? The country led by "a good friend" of the American president? > Iran The Iran currently under siege by the USA and Israel in an unsanctioned attack war? > you name it . Oh sure! We can gladly continue with Gaza, Vietnam, Cuba, Bhutan, South Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Denmark and Iceland, Mexico, Panama, Venezuela, ... there are so many more places fucked up by the USA and its agencies! > They will fund any sick sycophantic government if they let them build their plants . You mean like in Venezuela, Gaza, or whatever the clown in chief has planned for Iran?
  - jdiaz97 1mo ago
    JD Vance visiting Hungary was hilarious. You could gather 150 million Americans and not a single one would be able to pinpoint Hungary on a map. Whose interests was Vance serving? Russia’s?
  - maxdo 1mo ago
    >North Korea Are you seriously brought up North Korea here? In both USSR and USA of that time there was no hunger for another conflict that could end up in the new war. North Korean's were pushed by China's Mao despite Kim Soviet Army roots. And they attacked first. The result is very obvious a terrorist state with nuclear power. China could easily keep them away from nuclear power but they didn't . >Ukraine Seriously? despite my hate to Trump, he was trying to stop corruptionist North stream to occur, since it was a clear war precursor, and he was the first president to sell Ukraine lethal weapons. Current administration is incompetent but even so they approved the sell of ATACAMS from Turkey to ukraine just few weeks ago. But the fact that Ukraine still exist is only due to Biden administration. Modern peace in Syria is also due to same fact actually. >Iran Are you going to cry that Hitler was attacked? Iran as a country brought sooo much troubles to the entire region directly and indirectly. List of proxies : Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Palestinian territories, Bahrain, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia. >Oh sure! some random list mostly. How south Korea was screw up? or ... Mexico, or Venezuela? even Afghanistan with all the respect. If we are talking of China they also tried to attack vietnam. What happened to Denmark, Iceland are they art war? Ghaza : same Iran proxy said story multiplied by 1000 years conflict. How us is related here at all? Cuba? The poster child of communism mismanagement, I wish people of Cuba finally to have liberation. >Hungary this is one is funny, despite been a clear china/russian proxy, JD decided to support, i guess out of hate to EU, not sure what was the real angle. But right now, there are real deep corruption investigation that goes to both Russia and China.
- npn 1mo ago
  Ok that antise... We all know who you really want to criticize here.
ericpauley 1mo ago
It’s really about incentives more than morals. I know that, being in the US, if Anthropic steals my company’s trade secrets through model inputs contrary to our policy that I will (in theory) have legal standing and enforceable contracts against them. The same is not true against DeepSeek, and especially not against “Stealth”.
- mitemte 1mo ago
  You can use DeepSeek’s models through a provider that doesn’t train on your data, nor retain it. You could also self host them.
  - andriy_koval 1mo ago
    sure, but topic is about some unknown model on openrouter
andriy_koval 1mo ago
> It’s not like the US frontier labs are beacons of morality and transparency. they are businesses, so respect wishes of customers who give them money, if someone learn they intentionally leak private information, its over for them.
- louiereederson 1mo ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM
  - andriy_koval 1mo ago
    they leaked ordinary citizens (meta)-data by government request, majority of who doesn't care about privacy. Its very different to leaking raw trade secret of large and powerful corporations.
    - TalkingCodeMonk 1mo ago
      This is the strongest oligarchy-washing I've seen in a while. Congrats!
      - andriy_koval 1mo ago
        I just described world we are living in.
nater5000 1mo ago
>it is objectively true that the Chinese government has portrayed itself as a much more stable and sane entity That only makes me, a US citizen (i.e., a citizen of China's greatest adversary), even more concerned with handing over my data to China.
port11 1mo ago
To be fair to GP, they didn’t complain the model isn’t from the US. A “stealth” American model should be treated with the same suspicion, I think. The base of the argument isn’t affected by country of origin.

maxdo 1mo ago

[flagged]

jdiaz97 1mo ago
it's not China that is protecting the Epstein class btw
- no-name-here 1mo ago
  1. In the US on that item, it's ~50/50 or whatever. 2. In China, aren't even the biggest business leaders, the most famous celebrities, etc. simply "disappeared" if they won't support the party-line? Or even being "disappeared" for something like accusing a former vice-premier of sexual assault? For example, the BBC headline/article "Why do Chinese billionaires keep vanishing?"
  - jdiaz97 1mo ago
    is that your metric for china bad, billionaires disappearing?
    - no-name-here 1mo ago
      1. I'm generally against any countries "disappearing" anyone, including western countries - and my parent comment explicitly said that it happened to more than just billionaires - famous artists and actors were also disappeared, and the person I mentioned being disappeared for accusing an official of sexual assault was a top female athlete. 2. But if a country is willing to regularly "disappear" the highest profile members of society, they probably are not going to be too concerned about "disappearing" significantly larger groups of ordinary people, poor people, etc. who are willing to verbally disagree with the government, agreed? Or who are an ethnic minority like the Uyghurs. 3. I don't understand your "china bad" comment though - if the US was disappearing billionaires (or celebs/artists/athletes or whomever) if they wouldn't agree with Trump, would you have similarly said "is that your metric for 'america bad', disappearing people for not agreeing with the government?"?
    - deleted 1mo ago
      [deleted]
    - maxdo 1mo ago
      I posted above why china is bad, it's yes people disappearing, and sponsoring anyone who tries do destabilize current world , and hence fueling the war, North Korea, Iran, Russia is on that list of their proxies.
- hersko 1mo ago
  What exactly is "the Epstein class"?
ClikeX 1mo ago
> Chinas national policy is to destroy everyone’s life using espionage, bribery etc . They frame lack of morality as strength. And that differs from US foreign policy, how?
- jdiaz97 1mo ago
  the US has threatened to invade 15 countries in 2026, including ally countries (Denmark and Canada) Israel (with US money) is attacking Gaza, Cisjordania, Lebanon, Iran, Syria, now threatening Turkey and Egypt. But yeah, China bad I guess
  - throwawa71973 1mo ago
    [flagged]
    - jdiaz97 1mo ago
      I mentioned more than Iran
  - maxdo 1mo ago
    Some of it is miss information ( Turkey), some of it simply never happened. US is not dictatorship, one blah blah person(trum) can't do everything he wants. Real military conflicts you mentioned are direct impact of chinese policies. They willing to fuel any evil government unless they are against west. Without Iran doing proxy wars middle east would be at peace. Now the dry results of China VS US policies in regions since modern communist china establishment. What their policy produce. cause-and-effect relationships 101. What Evil China produce , and how that's related even to some invasions your mentioned. General overview : The post world war II period was the most peaceful time in modern history, leaded by US policies. with some mistakes like vietnam. but China did the same mistake and invaded Vietnam too anyways. Right now china goes into power. what their policies , their world looks like? Korea. Their first action. Direct military invasion by Mao. The Result: terrorist state, that officially supports stealing, human trafficking, selling drugs, arms to middle east etc. It now directly destroying part of Europe sending giant, not precise ballistic missiles, that killing children , woman etc. the also send troops to kill more europeans, just because Putin paid them some money. North Korea would not exist without china nor from inception, nor up until recently. Due to that support we also have one extra nuclear country who's will even the most evil one will be blindly followed by their people. The opposite of is ... South Korea, that brings to the world peace, technology, cars, phones. Poster child of china's policies vs poster child of USA policies. Next Poster child is Iran. Iran would not survive without China's support neither economically neither technology wise. Iran supports tons of proxies in middle east. Creating entire instability in the region, fueling number of wars. They killing their own people who are not happy with the government, and attacking everyone around taking entire world as a hostage. Also involved in all shady operations. Spreading arms, including drones, infamous Shaheds that killed so many people in Europe. China provide all equipment from military to cellphone so that body government can control and kill everyone who disagree with their policies. Compare that to USA policies, who removed major threads like Iraq who invaded countries around. Moving forward : Poster child russia. Russia would not survive it's war without China's support. And now it sending drones with China's made electronics to number of countries of Europe. The opposite ? USA supported Ukraine, and Russia lost it power in war-torn Siria and right now finally there is some shaky peace over there. To me it's very obvious what china produces as a government. USA is ugly reacting trying to save the world from another half crazy government that is trying to create nuclear weapons. The free world needs a new super power to protect themself probably, since we have an evil super power like china. Unfortunately, usa can't protect free world anymore.
rkuska 1mo ago
Are you sure you are not talking about CIA?
- rithdmc 1mo ago
  Careful, you don't want to be Operation Gladio'd.
9dev 1mo ago
> Hungary , The Hungary that JD Vance tried to influence elections in, in favour of an autocratic asshole that peddles antisemitism and FUD regarding Ukraine? > Canada, The Canada currently harassed by the sad joke of a POTUS with a trade war? > half of the Africa , The half hit by Ebola with retracted USAID, or the other half? Like that one that includes South Africa, the only African country the USA grants asylum right now--to white farmers over racism concerns? Or the half including Sudan or the Kongo, ravaged by civil war, enabled with American weapons and strategic neglect? > war in Ukraine , The war enabled by no-one but the USA's support for Russia? Remember the red carpets for Putin? > North Korea , You mean the country that only exists because of the USA's Korean War? The country led by "a good friend" of the American president? > Iran The Iran currently under siege by the USA and Israel in an unsanctioned attack war? > you name it . Oh sure! We can gladly continue with Gaza, Vietnam, Cuba, Bhutan, South Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Denmark and Iceland, Mexico, Panama, Venezuela, ... there are so many more places fucked up by the USA and its agencies! > They will fund any sick sycophantic government if they let them build their plants . You mean like in Venezuela, Gaza, or whatever the clown in chief has planned for Iran?
- jdiaz97 1mo ago
  JD Vance visiting Hungary was hilarious. You could gather 150 million Americans and not a single one would be able to pinpoint Hungary on a map. Whose interests was Vance serving? Russia’s?
- maxdo 1mo ago
  >North Korea Are you seriously brought up North Korea here? In both USSR and USA of that time there was no hunger for another conflict that could end up in the new war. North Korean's were pushed by China's Mao despite Kim Soviet Army roots. And they attacked first. The result is very obvious a terrorist state with nuclear power. China could easily keep them away from nuclear power but they didn't . >Ukraine Seriously? despite my hate to Trump, he was trying to stop corruptionist North stream to occur, since it was a clear war precursor, and he was the first president to sell Ukraine lethal weapons. Current administration is incompetent but even so they approved the sell of ATACAMS from Turkey to ukraine just few weeks ago. But the fact that Ukraine still exist is only due to Biden administration. Modern peace in Syria is also due to same fact actually. >Iran Are you going to cry that Hitler was attacked? Iran as a country brought sooo much troubles to the entire region directly and indirectly. List of proxies : Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Palestinian territories, Bahrain, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia. >Oh sure! some random list mostly. How south Korea was screw up? or ... Mexico, or Venezuela? even Afghanistan with all the respect. If we are talking of China they also tried to attack vietnam. What happened to Denmark, Iceland are they art war? Ghaza : same Iran proxy said story multiplied by 1000 years conflict. How us is related here at all? Cuba? The poster child of communism mismanagement, I wish people of Cuba finally to have liberation. >Hungary this is one is funny, despite been a clear china/russian proxy, JD decided to support, i guess out of hate to EU, not sure what was the real angle. But right now, there are real deep corruption investigation that goes to both Russia and China.
npn 1mo ago
Ok that antise... We all know who you really want to criticize here.

ericpauley 1mo ago

It’s really about incentives more than morals. I know that, being in the US, if Anthropic steals my company’s trade secrets through model inputs contrary to our policy that I will (in theory) have legal standing and enforceable contracts against them. The same is not true against DeepSeek, and especially not against “Stealth”.

mitemte 1mo ago
You can use DeepSeek’s models through a provider that doesn’t train on your data, nor retain it. You could also self host them.
- andriy_koval 1mo ago
  sure, but topic is about some unknown model on openrouter

andriy_koval 1mo ago

> It’s not like the US frontier labs are beacons of morality and transparency. they are businesses, so respect wishes of customers who give them money, if someone learn they intentionally leak private information, its over for them.

louiereederson 1mo ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM
- andriy_koval 1mo ago
  they leaked ordinary citizens (meta)-data by government request, majority of who doesn't care about privacy. Its very different to leaking raw trade secret of large and powerful corporations.
  - TalkingCodeMonk 1mo ago
    This is the strongest oligarchy-washing I've seen in a while. Congrats!
    - andriy_koval 1mo ago
      I just described world we are living in.

nater5000 1mo ago

>it is objectively true that the Chinese government has portrayed itself as a much more stable and sane entity That only makes me, a US citizen (i.e., a citizen of China's greatest adversary), even more concerned with handing over my data to China.

port11 1mo ago

To be fair to GP, they didn’t complain the model isn’t from the US. A “stealth” American model should be treated with the same suspicion, I think. The base of the argument isn’t affected by country of origin.