5 ms·

> distract from real unsexy solutions like grab the plastic in rivers BEFORE they make it to the ocean. They pivoted to mostly river cleanup (interceptors) man

by mnau 1mo ago

> distract from real unsexy solutions like grab the plastic in rivers BEFORE they make it to the ocean. They pivoted to mostly river cleanup (interceptors) many years ago. And they clearly show that it is just one step back, not a full time solution. Ocean cleanup is last step, river grab is the step before that and having proper garbage collection would be best. Which is literally written in TFA: > Now they mostly intercept plastic when it first leaves rivers and enters the ocean instead of trying to scoop it out of the middle of the ocean, though the open ocean work is still mentioned on their website

KennyBlanken 1mo ago
> having proper garbage collection would be best See, you've just shown how you have fallen for the very trap that is being discussed: you think garbage collection is the solution. Plastic recycling was never a valid solution to the problem of plastic trash in the environment. Recycling was a non-solution the oil and plastics industries used to deflect criticism of their products. They knew would never be feasible because the polymer is no longer in a state that is suitable for re-use once it's been heated and formed, and that degradation gets even worse as it ages, is exposed to UV, etc. Anything made with it will be inferior. Weaker, not as dense, and so on. They also knew that it would be impossible for any significant amount of plastic to be recycled, even if it was feasible to re-use it. It also shifted the onus from the producers of a wildly harmful material to the consumers. "It's those litterbugs!" The auto industry managed to shift public perception from "cars are insanely dangerous products" to "idiot leeches of society are throwing themselves in front of car drivers who are upstanding people who contribute to society!" Seriously - look at the cartoons from the early auto industry era. The "jaywalker" is portrayed as slovenly, poor, and stupid. The car owner is portrayed as well dressed, intelligent... The plastics industry has turned things from "our products never, ever go away. They break down into tinier and tinier pieces, and the particles are so prolific that there literally isn't a single place on earth not contaminated by them, not a single creature that hasn't ingested them, and it's now in our brains"... ...to "silly irresponsible people are not responsibly disposing of their plastics so they can be recycled by us responsible plastic producers! Look, we sponsor beach trash cleanup groups! Look at this picture of our smiling employees spending a day in safety vests helping collect plastic from a couple hundred square feet of beach!" Think about that. Plastic is in your brain. That's how thoroughly contaminated the entire planet and ecosystem is. And it's because the plastic and oil industry deflected "plastics are bad" with non-solutions and claims about recycling and pictures of neonatal babies inside plastic incubators with plastic tubes and plastic IV bags. Do YOU want to have that preemie die because the evil hippies want to take away your plastic, mnau?
- AlienRobot 1mo ago
  When I was in school we were taught the 3 R's: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. I haven't heard about Reduce and Reuse since.
  - tmnvix 1mo ago
    Quite. And quite the opposite - I hear a lot of messaging encouraging us to consume more. To the point that most Westerners (and no doubt others) have a strong sense of entitlement when it comes to consumption. If you ever bring this sort of thing up with people the entitlement becomes obvious. We feel entitled to be transported thousands of miles in a matter of hours for 'a break'. We feel entitled to some of the most inconsiderate vehicles ever produced because "how else am I going to tow my boat/horse float?" As if a lifestyle that involves moving massive things around is a god-given right. And all of this within a matter of two or three generations. We truly live in the most entitled times. Our personal morality has been corrupted by convenience and commerce. Too many people think that if something is legal, possible, and affordable, then why not? No room for consideration of others. Quite simply (and please excuse the strong language) we have become a bunch of selfish fucks. But because it's now the norm to be a selfish fuck then that makes it okay, right? I've always admired the approach of my grandparents. Practical, economical, and able to enjoy doing the simple things that are actually necessary for living a good life. Sadly, that generation is passing. What are our grandchildren going to think of us?
    - deaux 1mo ago
      > Quite. And quite the opposite - I hear a lot of messaging encouraging us to consume more. To the point that most Westerners (and no doubt others) have a strong sense of entitlement when it comes to consumption. If you ever bring this sort of thing up with people the entitlement becomes obvious. We feel entitled to be transported thousands of miles in a matter of hours for 'a break'. We feel entitled to some of the most inconsiderate vehicles ever produced because "how else am I going to tow my boat/horse float?" As if a lifestyle that involves moving massive things around is a god-given right. And all of this within a matter of two or three generations. We truly live in the most entitled times. Where do the people who understand this congregate? > (and no doubt others) While the top 30 on this entitlement ranking will contain a lot of Western countries, I can unfortunately confirm that they're far from alone, and in fact none of them will even take the top spot.

by mnau 1mo ago

KennyBlanken 1mo ago

> having proper garbage collection would be best See, you've just shown how you have fallen for the very trap that is being discussed: you think garbage collection is the solution. Plastic recycling was never a valid solution to the problem of plastic trash in the environment. Recycling was a non-solution the oil and plastics industries used to deflect criticism of their products. They knew would never be feasible because the polymer is no longer in a state that is suitable for re-use once it's been heated and formed, and that degradation gets even worse as it ages, is exposed to UV, etc. Anything made with it will be inferior. Weaker, not as dense, and so on. They also knew that it would be impossible for any significant amount of plastic to be recycled, even if it was feasible to re-use it. It also shifted the onus from the producers of a wildly harmful material to the consumers. "It's those litterbugs!" The auto industry managed to shift public perception from "cars are insanely dangerous products" to "idiot leeches of society are throwing themselves in front of car drivers who are upstanding people who contribute to society!" Seriously - look at the cartoons from the early auto industry era. The "jaywalker" is portrayed as slovenly, poor, and stupid. The car owner is portrayed as well dressed, intelligent... The plastics industry has turned things from "our products never, ever go away. They break down into tinier and tinier pieces, and the particles are so prolific that there literally isn't a single place on earth not contaminated by them, not a single creature that hasn't ingested them, and it's now in our brains"... ...to "silly irresponsible people are not responsibly disposing of their plastics so they can be recycled by us responsible plastic producers! Look, we sponsor beach trash cleanup groups! Look at this picture of our smiling employees spending a day in safety vests helping collect plastic from a couple hundred square feet of beach!" Think about that. Plastic is in your brain. That's how thoroughly contaminated the entire planet and ecosystem is. And it's because the plastic and oil industry deflected "plastics are bad" with non-solutions and claims about recycling and pictures of neonatal babies inside plastic incubators with plastic tubes and plastic IV bags. Do YOU want to have that preemie die because the evil hippies want to take away your plastic, mnau?

AlienRobot 1mo ago
When I was in school we were taught the 3 R's: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. I haven't heard about Reduce and Reuse since.
- tmnvix 1mo ago
  Quite. And quite the opposite - I hear a lot of messaging encouraging us to consume more. To the point that most Westerners (and no doubt others) have a strong sense of entitlement when it comes to consumption. If you ever bring this sort of thing up with people the entitlement becomes obvious. We feel entitled to be transported thousands of miles in a matter of hours for 'a break'. We feel entitled to some of the most inconsiderate vehicles ever produced because "how else am I going to tow my boat/horse float?" As if a lifestyle that involves moving massive things around is a god-given right. And all of this within a matter of two or three generations. We truly live in the most entitled times. Our personal morality has been corrupted by convenience and commerce. Too many people think that if something is legal, possible, and affordable, then why not? No room for consideration of others. Quite simply (and please excuse the strong language) we have become a bunch of selfish fucks. But because it's now the norm to be a selfish fuck then that makes it okay, right? I've always admired the approach of my grandparents. Practical, economical, and able to enjoy doing the simple things that are actually necessary for living a good life. Sadly, that generation is passing. What are our grandchildren going to think of us?
  - deaux 1mo ago
    > Quite. And quite the opposite - I hear a lot of messaging encouraging us to consume more. To the point that most Westerners (and no doubt others) have a strong sense of entitlement when it comes to consumption. If you ever bring this sort of thing up with people the entitlement becomes obvious. We feel entitled to be transported thousands of miles in a matter of hours for 'a break'. We feel entitled to some of the most inconsiderate vehicles ever produced because "how else am I going to tow my boat/horse float?" As if a lifestyle that involves moving massive things around is a god-given right. And all of this within a matter of two or three generations. We truly live in the most entitled times. Where do the people who understand this congregate? > (and no doubt others) While the top 30 on this entitlement ranking will contain a lot of Western countries, I can unfortunately confirm that they're far from alone, and in fact none of them will even take the top spot.