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Relevant: https://keepandroidopen.org/ https://keepandroidopen.org/ > Starting in 2027*, a silent update, nonconsensually pushed by Google, will block every An

Relevant: https://keepandroidopen.org/ https://keepandroidopen.org/ > Starting in 2027*, a silent update, nonconsensually pushed by Google, will block every Android app whose developer hasn't registered with Google, signed their contract, paid up, and handed over government ID.

paxys 2mo ago
Doesn’t Apple do the same?
- sunaookami 2mo ago
  The difference is that Apple always did it with iOS and Google did not. Many chose Android because of that.
- EastSmith 2mo ago
  Does it matter that Apple does the same?
- croes 2mo ago
  Did Apple claim iOS is open source?
  - paxys 2mo ago
    AOSP is open source. The Android running on most manufacturer-branded phones isn’t.
  - mikestorrent 2mo ago
    Well, https://github.com/apple-oss-distributions/xnu https://github.com/apple-oss-distributions/xnu is, but it's not enough to make you an iPhone.
  - izacus 2mo ago
    So you're saying Google should stop open sourcing Android? That should like a bad incentive to make to defend Apple.
    - realusername 2mo ago
      Google has no choice, the moment they stop releasing Android sources, a chinese consortium will just take over and they will lose ownership of Android
      - izacus 2mo ago
        Yeah, because you're all using HarmonyOS aren't you?
    - croes 2mo ago
      Apple is at least honest at that point. Google claims an openness that doesn’t exist anymore
      - izacus 2mo ago
        Do you have problem accessing http://cs.android.com http://cs.android.com or what?
- lambda 2mo ago
  I specifically use Android because of this, among other requirements, that Apple imposes on software development on their platform. I do not own general purpose computers that I am not allowed to develop software for without permission. I have always avoided consoles for that reason as well (Steam Machine and other similar platforms would be fine, but I've been avoiding consoles for long enough that it's not something I really look for any more). I was a major Apple fanboy up until the iPhone. Left the ecosystem after the iPhone and macOS started moving in that direction as well. I'm going to miss having a smartphone that I can use with my banking and EV apps, but probably for the best to get out of Google's ecosystem. Hoping that GrapheneOS will still allow me to use some of the apps that I like.
  - mikestorrent 2mo ago
    Android has been a brutal disappointment on this front since the day it launched. Sure, you could hack various devices and spend too much time on xda-developers and get custom ROMs, but if you compare that to the openness of even a stock Windows PC it's an absolute joke. Android was supposed to be the open Linux phone, when I bought my HTC G1 full of hope; turned into an inferior iPhone wannabe with worse performance and a low quality walled garden that keeps most people in without keeping the trash out. Time to start over.
  - phire 2mo ago
    I switched to an iPhone last year, mostly because I was getting sick of Samsung’s shit, and google doesn’t sell their pixel phones locally (and I don’t like Oppo). But the other reason is that most of Android’s openness is quickly disappearing, so my main argument against iPhone is gone. And on the topic of privacy, I actually trust Apple way more than I trust the company that makes most of their revenue via advertising.
    - klardotsh 2mo ago
      Exactly this. Once the writing was on the wall that deGoogled / FOSS Android was on borrowed time (at best), a ton of the argument against iOS dissolved overnight. We can argue that Apple's anti-repair policies and anti-user-customization policies are their own evils, sure, but at least my phone works for its core tasks, and works phenomenally well at that. My deGoogled Android phones were mostly hobbled together piles of "it sometimes works, as long as I don't look at it too funny". This tradeoff was fine for fully owning my data and being able to install absolutely anything I wanted on my phone. With arbitrary APK installation disappearing, and unlocked bootloaders to install a less hostile fork of Android becoming such a rarity these days, I may as well at least not fear looking at my phone the wrong way when the moon is in alignment with the wrong star. Source: about 12 years of Android usage (11 of those on unlocked bootloaders and custom ROMs, ~6? of those deGoogled) -> iPhone 16e.
- ProAm 2mo ago
  > Doesn’t Apple do the same yes and Apple does it for the 30% lock-in. Apple does it to protect their ecosystem. Apple also does not care about their customers, their developers, their suppliers or their employees. Closed systems do not help the populous. This is about money, captive audience and subscription revenues.
- ulrikrasmussen 2mo ago
  Yes, and this is the reason that many of us have not, and will not, ever buy an Apple product. They are the ultimate technodictators, and their products are only for people who like to trade their freedom for moderate convenience.
hedora 2mo ago
Any word as to whether this will apply to GrapheneOS? If I had to choose, I'd block apps that did comply with this BS.
- grapheneos 2mo ago
  It doesn't apply to GrapheneOS. Google's upcoming change means Google Mobile Services operating systems will show a warning for apps from unverified developers. Bypassing the warning will require a one-time 24 hour wait via the regular user interface. It can be immediately bypassed using Android Debug Bridge instead. Developers with Play Store apps are already verified. It's counterproductive for app developers with existing Play Console accounts considered verified to refuse to register their apps distributed outside of the Play Store. That would encourage users to stick to the Play Store. The problem is for developers without a Play Console account who would need to register and verify their identify to avoid their apps showing a warning. If people are already registered, they might as well list their apps distributed outside the Play Store to avoid the warning.
- rbits 2mo ago
  > Any word as to whether this will apply to GrapheneOS? If I had to choose, I'd block apps that did comply with this BS. I doubt it, considering Android developer verification will go through Google Play Services, which GrapheneOS has siloed off from most of the OS as far as I'm aware.
spaqin 2mo ago
Man, all of these little steps Google is taking to take the control away from the users, not to take over the world or anything else, but to force on you more accurate advertisements. What are we even doing?
- pizzaiolo 2mo ago
  Any inconveniences with Linux phones are less annoying to me than what Google is doing to AOSP. My next phone will run postmarketOS.
  - palata 2mo ago
    Well Google is becoming worse every year, but AOSP is way ahead of Linux on Mobile, for many reasons. The thing is, AOSP is open source. Just like Linux is not controlled by one of the TooBigTechs, I could imagine a fork of AOSP becoming a viable alternative without depending on Google anymore. And supporting alternative Android OSes (like GrapheneOS and LineageOS) is one way to support that vision. Linux on Mobile is nice, but unfortunately I think it's an uphill battle because of all the proprietary firmwares?
    - fsflover 2mo ago
      > but unfortunately I think it's an uphill battle because of all the proprietary firmwares? In my GNU/Linux phone, all drivers are FLOSS and all pieces of firmware are backed into the replaceable peripherals (modem M.2 card and WiFi M.2 card).
      - palata 2mo ago
        And the battery life is a lot worse than Android, isn't it? And would you say you have access to all the hardware features supported by Android? "It's good enough for me" is not the same as "it is comparable to Android".
        fsflover 2mo ago

paxys 2mo ago

Doesn’t Apple do the same?

sunaookami 2mo ago
The difference is that Apple always did it with iOS and Google did not. Many chose Android because of that.
EastSmith 2mo ago
Does it matter that Apple does the same?
croes 2mo ago
Did Apple claim iOS is open source?
- paxys 2mo ago
  AOSP is open source. The Android running on most manufacturer-branded phones isn’t.
- mikestorrent 2mo ago
  Well, https://github.com/apple-oss-distributions/xnu https://github.com/apple-oss-distributions/xnu is, but it's not enough to make you an iPhone.
- izacus 2mo ago
  So you're saying Google should stop open sourcing Android? That should like a bad incentive to make to defend Apple.
  - realusername 2mo ago
    Google has no choice, the moment they stop releasing Android sources, a chinese consortium will just take over and they will lose ownership of Android
    - izacus 2mo ago
      Yeah, because you're all using HarmonyOS aren't you?
  - croes 2mo ago
    Apple is at least honest at that point. Google claims an openness that doesn’t exist anymore
    - izacus 2mo ago
      Do you have problem accessing http://cs.android.com http://cs.android.com or what?
lambda 2mo ago
I specifically use Android because of this, among other requirements, that Apple imposes on software development on their platform. I do not own general purpose computers that I am not allowed to develop software for without permission. I have always avoided consoles for that reason as well (Steam Machine and other similar platforms would be fine, but I've been avoiding consoles for long enough that it's not something I really look for any more). I was a major Apple fanboy up until the iPhone. Left the ecosystem after the iPhone and macOS started moving in that direction as well. I'm going to miss having a smartphone that I can use with my banking and EV apps, but probably for the best to get out of Google's ecosystem. Hoping that GrapheneOS will still allow me to use some of the apps that I like.
- mikestorrent 2mo ago
  Android has been a brutal disappointment on this front since the day it launched. Sure, you could hack various devices and spend too much time on xda-developers and get custom ROMs, but if you compare that to the openness of even a stock Windows PC it's an absolute joke. Android was supposed to be the open Linux phone, when I bought my HTC G1 full of hope; turned into an inferior iPhone wannabe with worse performance and a low quality walled garden that keeps most people in without keeping the trash out. Time to start over.
- phire 2mo ago
  I switched to an iPhone last year, mostly because I was getting sick of Samsung’s shit, and google doesn’t sell their pixel phones locally (and I don’t like Oppo). But the other reason is that most of Android’s openness is quickly disappearing, so my main argument against iPhone is gone. And on the topic of privacy, I actually trust Apple way more than I trust the company that makes most of their revenue via advertising.
  - klardotsh 2mo ago
    Exactly this. Once the writing was on the wall that deGoogled / FOSS Android was on borrowed time (at best), a ton of the argument against iOS dissolved overnight. We can argue that Apple's anti-repair policies and anti-user-customization policies are their own evils, sure, but at least my phone works for its core tasks, and works phenomenally well at that. My deGoogled Android phones were mostly hobbled together piles of "it sometimes works, as long as I don't look at it too funny". This tradeoff was fine for fully owning my data and being able to install absolutely anything I wanted on my phone. With arbitrary APK installation disappearing, and unlocked bootloaders to install a less hostile fork of Android becoming such a rarity these days, I may as well at least not fear looking at my phone the wrong way when the moon is in alignment with the wrong star. Source: about 12 years of Android usage (11 of those on unlocked bootloaders and custom ROMs, ~6? of those deGoogled) -> iPhone 16e.
ProAm 2mo ago
> Doesn’t Apple do the same yes and Apple does it for the 30% lock-in. Apple does it to protect their ecosystem. Apple also does not care about their customers, their developers, their suppliers or their employees. Closed systems do not help the populous. This is about money, captive audience and subscription revenues.
ulrikrasmussen 2mo ago
Yes, and this is the reason that many of us have not, and will not, ever buy an Apple product. They are the ultimate technodictators, and their products are only for people who like to trade their freedom for moderate convenience.

hedora 2mo ago

Any word as to whether this will apply to GrapheneOS? If I had to choose, I'd block apps that did comply with this BS.

grapheneos 2mo ago
It doesn't apply to GrapheneOS. Google's upcoming change means Google Mobile Services operating systems will show a warning for apps from unverified developers. Bypassing the warning will require a one-time 24 hour wait via the regular user interface. It can be immediately bypassed using Android Debug Bridge instead. Developers with Play Store apps are already verified. It's counterproductive for app developers with existing Play Console accounts considered verified to refuse to register their apps distributed outside of the Play Store. That would encourage users to stick to the Play Store. The problem is for developers without a Play Console account who would need to register and verify their identify to avoid their apps showing a warning. If people are already registered, they might as well list their apps distributed outside the Play Store to avoid the warning.
rbits 2mo ago
> Any word as to whether this will apply to GrapheneOS? If I had to choose, I'd block apps that did comply with this BS. I doubt it, considering Android developer verification will go through Google Play Services, which GrapheneOS has siloed off from most of the OS as far as I'm aware.

spaqin 2mo ago

Man, all of these little steps Google is taking to take the control away from the users, not to take over the world or anything else, but to force on you more accurate advertisements. What are we even doing?

pizzaiolo 2mo ago
Any inconveniences with Linux phones are less annoying to me than what Google is doing to AOSP. My next phone will run postmarketOS.
- palata 2mo ago
  Well Google is becoming worse every year, but AOSP is way ahead of Linux on Mobile, for many reasons. The thing is, AOSP is open source. Just like Linux is not controlled by one of the TooBigTechs, I could imagine a fork of AOSP becoming a viable alternative without depending on Google anymore. And supporting alternative Android OSes (like GrapheneOS and LineageOS) is one way to support that vision. Linux on Mobile is nice, but unfortunately I think it's an uphill battle because of all the proprietary firmwares?
  - fsflover 2mo ago
    > but unfortunately I think it's an uphill battle because of all the proprietary firmwares? In my GNU/Linux phone, all drivers are FLOSS and all pieces of firmware are backed into the replaceable peripherals (modem M.2 card and WiFi M.2 card).
    - palata 2mo ago
      And the battery life is a lot worse than Android, isn't it? And would you say you have access to all the hardware features supported by Android? "It's good enough for me" is not the same as "it is comparable to Android".
      - fsflover 2mo ago