8 ms·

>> This is great news... No this is insane news, the world is crazy and dumb. Must be all these LLMs. Stock up more than 150%, based on totally unpublished dat

>> This is great news... No this is insane news, the world is crazy and dumb. Must be all these LLMs. Stock up more than 150%, based on totally unpublished data and an X post... - The flashy 49% figures are from the old 157 only patient Phase 2, not this Phase 3 trial. The phase 2 was open label, had only 50 controls, and its randomization was disrupted. Meaning 9 patients were reassigned and the final 37 were no longer randomized. Its primary RFS result was p=0.053 two-sided, with the 95% CI crossing 1. It also used an unusually permissive one-sided alpha of 0.10, and much of the later "confirmation" is just longer follow up of those same 157 patients... - This phase 3 news so far is nothing more than a press release. They have not published hazard ratio, or confidence interval, their event counts or survival curves. - They met the endpoint as used in the press release means nothing, until they publish the actual 3 data, so my money is at the end this will be a kind of marginal effect that researchers will struggle to reproduce for years Another type of study that will take 2 to 3 years to validate or dismiss, in the meanwhile stock is up 150%....

eli_gottlieb 2mo ago
For what it's worth, AFAICT Moderna and other such high-tech biopharma stocks are way too sensitive to the news cycle and not nearly enough to scientific fundamentals, so I took the opportunity of having it up 150% to sell mine off.
internetter 2mo ago
the stock is up 150% because if Moderna has indeed cured cancer, the stock is worth many magnitudes more than that. It's presumably based on the probability this report is indeed as promising as it is at face value. If Moderna had announced "we are 100% sure cancer is cured" the stock would've gone up much more
- root-parent 2mo ago
  Nobody is talking about curing cancer here. These are patients who had melanoma surgically removed, and IF the unpublished data of phase 3 turn out to be true... you are looking at having improved survival rates after 2 to 3 years on 5 to 10% plus of the patients. That is ALL this still unknown announcement MIGHT mean.
  - internetter 2mo ago
    I was being hyperbolic, but reading the comment back it doesn't really come across that way.
jryle70 2mo ago
150% increase is because it started from a low point. Moderna's stock lost 94% value after Covid. Stock price speaks to investors' enthusiasm, there is no algorithm. > This phase 3 news so far is nothing more than a press release. Can you find a case where a press release after phase 3 was later proven wrong? They do have the data, and most likely the data is positive. They're talking about FDA's approval as soon as late 2027, which is fairly soon. Do you know what would be more dramatic than stock gaining 150%? that'd be the stock crashing if the press release turned out to be wrong. Follow the money if you are skeptical. See who's selling. > The flashy 49% figures are from the old 157 only patient Phase 2, not this Phase 3 trial. There are 1,100 patients in phase 3. More evidence that they're pretty confident. This is great news.
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- root-parent 2mo ago
  >> Can you find a case where a press release after phase 3 was later proven wrong? Galera Therapeutics, Actimmune, leronlimab, roxadustat, tivozanib, aducanumab, tebipenem are all examples of Phase 3 massive failures. >> This is great news. Looking forward to the stock market reacting with the same level of due diligence show here, when the actual science data is published...in a still not announced distant future... :-)

eli_gottlieb 2mo ago

For what it's worth, AFAICT Moderna and other such high-tech biopharma stocks are way too sensitive to the news cycle and not nearly enough to scientific fundamentals, so I took the opportunity of having it up 150% to sell mine off.

internetter 2mo ago

the stock is up 150% because if Moderna has indeed cured cancer, the stock is worth many magnitudes more than that. It's presumably based on the probability this report is indeed as promising as it is at face value. If Moderna had announced "we are 100% sure cancer is cured" the stock would've gone up much more

root-parent 2mo ago
Nobody is talking about curing cancer here. These are patients who had melanoma surgically removed, and IF the unpublished data of phase 3 turn out to be true... you are looking at having improved survival rates after 2 to 3 years on 5 to 10% plus of the patients. That is ALL this still unknown announcement MIGHT mean.
- internetter 2mo ago
  I was being hyperbolic, but reading the comment back it doesn't really come across that way.

jryle70 2mo ago

150% increase is because it started from a low point. Moderna's stock lost 94% value after Covid. Stock price speaks to investors' enthusiasm, there is no algorithm. > This phase 3 news so far is nothing more than a press release. Can you find a case where a press release after phase 3 was later proven wrong? They do have the data, and most likely the data is positive. They're talking about FDA's approval as soon as late 2027, which is fairly soon. Do you know what would be more dramatic than stock gaining 150%? that'd be the stock crashing if the press release turned out to be wrong. Follow the money if you are skeptical. See who's selling. > The flashy 49% figures are from the old 157 only patient Phase 2, not this Phase 3 trial. There are 1,100 patients in phase 3. More evidence that they're pretty confident. This is great news.

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root-parent 2mo ago
>> Can you find a case where a press release after phase 3 was later proven wrong? Galera Therapeutics, Actimmune, leronlimab, roxadustat, tivozanib, aducanumab, tebipenem are all examples of Phase 3 massive failures. >> This is great news. Looking forward to the stock market reacting with the same level of due diligence show here, when the actual science data is published...in a still not announced distant future... :-)