4 ms·

Cop Explains Why He Used License Plate Reader to Stalk Woman

62 points by cdrnsf 2mo ago

NoDodgeQuestion 2mo ago
Can a native English speaker explain what "I saw a shiny thing" means?
- avgDev 2mo ago
  They see a good looking attractive woman and spy on them. Their low IQ vanishes completely and all the blood rushes to their pants. They are like a toddler in a toy store and want the shiniest thing.
  - knodi 2mo ago
    Toddler with guns and a license to kill.
    - dgellow 2mo ago
      and qualified immunity. And civil asset forfeiture. And generally protected by institutions
  - paimapi 2mo ago
    relatedly: https://abcnews.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836 https://abcnews.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story...
- overtone1000 2mo ago
  It's a metaphor. He was comparing seeing the woman to seeing an attractive or valuable object like a coin on the ground or a jewel.
- mrguyorama 2mo ago
  The police officer is saying that he is so brain damaged or otherwise incapable of self control, rational thought, and restraint, that an attractive woman existing in his presence caused him to immediately commit many crimes to see her again. Pay close attention to how he insists that she was coming on to him. He genuinely believes that. He lives in a fake reality that he adjusts in whatever way will make him happiest because he has spent so long in a system that has zero repercussions or accountability. He probably shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. Men like this know they are doing bad things. They don't care. There are no repercussions. They do not feel bad about doing these bad things. See also: https://www.bwss.org/abusive-men-describe-the-benefits-of-violence/ https://www.bwss.org/abusive-men-describe-the-benefits-of-vi... Basically, these people just choose to not care about other people. They know they are hurting someone. But minor personal convenience is more important to them than not hurting another person.
avgDev 2mo ago
Just unacceptable all around. I've studied criminal justice before CS, and after getting to know cops I decided it isn't for me. The culture is awful. It is like high school, a lot of drama, sleeping around, many divorces, abuse of power and just screwed up mentality. What makes this story worse is this for me: "The detective investigating Roman told the man “you’ll get past this bro” during his arrest, and later told the victim that he was "remorseful" and urged her not to post about the incident on social media, according to body camera footage obtained by 404 Media." The detective urged the victim not post about it.....both should be stripped of badges immediately and never get certified again.
- krapp 2mo ago
  [flagged]
  - avgDev 2mo ago
    Yep. I don't understand how departments even allow wearing the punisher logo. It is unprofessional imo. Also, a good indicator of a total toddler of a cop.
  - idle_zealot 2mo ago
    Look into what "defund" means in this context. It's a slogan that leaked from more formal and academic discussion into general usage and is misinterpreted as "let's not do law enforcement." That's not what anyone well-meaning means when they use it. They mean that the police are ineffective as a law enforcement institution, and the money spent on them would be better used on other safety projects. Giving a poorly designed institution more money does not improve safety. Maybe an effective public safety institution needs more money than the police get currently (though I doubt that) but no matter how much you give to these guys they'll spend it on retired military gear, warrior training, and building a panopticon of always-on public cameras via private partnerships.
    - krapp 2mo ago
      >Look into what "defund" means in this context. It's a slogan that leaked from more formal and academic discussion into general usage and is misinterpreted as "let's not do law enforcement." No it didn't. It came from black activist movements and got popularized by BLM and the Black Visions Collective during the George Floyd protests, and abolition was very much an intended part of the message. It then leaked into more formal and academic discussion as it was adopted by the white liberal mainstream because the original message was too radical to be acceptable. Which is understandable. No one wants to admit that their complicity in a white supremacist system is the problem.
quickthrowman 2mo ago
If he didn’t say “Because I wanted to have sex with her,” he is lying. He wanted to have sex with her so he stalked her. I bet this is several orders of magnitude more common than hat is reported among police with access to databases.
deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
cucumber3732842 2mo ago
Cops abuse every system that's given to them, to varying extents. Whining about lack of access controls and rogue (i.e. not using to do their job properly) cops is implicitly saying that this system could/would/should exist if it has "proper" access controls, whatever that means. It's like seeing a slave labor gulag and saying that the prisoners need better recreation ad more frequent laundry. To say these little things like access controlled need to be fixed is advocating for turd polishing. Even with proper access controls the purpose of these systems is to create misery at the hands of the state. The turd is still a turd.
- srustagi 2mo ago
  > to varying extents Is doing an INSANE amount of heavy lifting here for that generalization but yeah point taken.
  - cucumber3732842 2mo ago
    I think these systems are probably less abused on a per officer basis than tazers but that's just a guess. Obviously neither is great.
bko 2mo ago
I recently listened to the Flock CEO on All In podcast, and he mentioned an ironic thing about Flock and it's audit trail is that it serves as a honeypot to root out bad police. Flock basically knows what a malicious request looks like. The simple example he gives is someone pinging the same license plate every day without putting it on a watchlist, because the officer doesn't want others to know. They started rolling out auto-detection of bad-faith queries and flagging those to supervisors. If you figure that some percentage of cops are dirty, a simple easily detectable honeypot is extremely effective in identifying them and firing them. I guess the hard part here is actually holding the cops that abuse the system accountable but that's also likely solvable. It's a huge liability for the police force. Usually the ones that are protecting dirty cops are the police unions, but that's a whole different conversation It's also important to note that Flock is just a license plate reader. It doesn't record video or do any facial recognition. And storage typically gets deleted between 1 and 7 days and is up to the precent to set. https://singjupost.com/transcript-all-in-interview-with-flock-ceo-garrett-langley/ https://singjupost.com/transcript-all-in-interview-with-floc...
- chaps 2mo ago
  Flock is not just a license plate reader. They have many products. Here's an article today that includes a decent deep dive into the code of one of its new projects that's... definitely more than just license plate reading. https://www.wired.com/story/flock-safety-os-investigate/ https://www.wired.com/story/flock-safety-os-investigate/
  - mysterydip 2mo ago
    [dead]
  - bko 2mo ago
    From the article: > The code describes 45 tools at the AI’s disposal, giving it access to plate scans and camera metadata, arrest records, case files, dispatch logs, ballistics results, and commercial databases that contain Social Security numbers, dates of birth, phone numbers, email addresses, relatives and associates. Sounds like they're shipping an AI that can use external datasources like an MCP. By this regard, Claude does exactly the same thing. Give it access to a database with social security numbers and it'll query them for you. The rest of the things described in the article is all a byproduct of having a database (typically kept around for 1-7 days) of cars, their license plates, locations and some physical description of the car. For instance: > vehicles that left one city for another and returned within a week, made repeat roundtrips over 14 days, or passed through three areas in sequence. If you have still photos of every car passing on particular street corners, this is just a query. They're just taking photos and reading license plates. And they started getting some description of the car, like unusual things. The CEO talks about that as well. From the interview: > A car drives by, we take a still image of the vehicle, we read the license plate, and the system’s gotten more sophisticated with time. We can detect things like a roof rack or a bumper sticker or dent or damage, but that’s at its core what the technology does... > So it’s pretty cool technology, and pretty effective, because if you think about what happens on a 911 call, most people don’t instinctively look at the license plate and remember it. They see the thing that was unique about the car — oh, it had damage on the right side. I would definitely recommend the interview if you want to learn more.
lisp2240 2mo ago
In the 2000s I knew a guy who was transitioning to software development after working in HR at a large American police department. He told me you couldn't become a cop unless you had a mental illness. They psychologically screen candidates to filter out people who have too much empathy. They would reject you if you said you had a close relationship with your mother, for example. They wanted people with aggressive tendencies. They loved it when someone had a superhero tattoo or had a parent die when they were a child. People always comment that we need to do more screening before people become cops, do more training. The screening and the training are the problem.
- grepex 2mo ago
  It sounds like that guy may have been exaggerating a bit. Aggressive people are a liability. Especially in law enforcement. Not just to the department but to fellow officers. They stir shit up and it is dangerous and annoying. Cops do need more training, like dramatically more training. I think the screening process is trying to solve a really difficult problem. You don't know if/how someone will be corrupted when they have a little bit of power. Or how they will change over time.
  - adjejmxbdjdn 2mo ago
    I’m pretty sure the commenter you responded to agrees aggressive people are a liability and that’s the problem with current hiring(or at least the hiring contemporaneous to when they heard this). From my own personal conversation with a hostage scenario trainer for the police, he said de-escalation forms only a tiny percentage of his training because that’s not what the cops want, even though he would make that the majority of the training given a free hand, since de-escalation doesn’t just increase the chances of the hostages being safe, but also the cops and the first responders.
    - grepex 2mo ago
      Yes, I'm sure they would agree but I'm pointing out that the department/agency would agree as well. I don't think that departments were actively seeking out aggressive people, but rather seeking out people who could handle getting aggressive when a situation calls for it. Someone who can't get aggressive is likewise a liability. I do see what you are saying regarding de-escalation. It seems like one of those things that is easy to mistakenly dismiss as "easy" and focus on something like firearms or tactics training.

62 points by cdrnsf 2mo ago

NoDodgeQuestion 2mo ago

Can a native English speaker explain what "I saw a shiny thing" means?

avgDev 2mo ago
They see a good looking attractive woman and spy on them. Their low IQ vanishes completely and all the blood rushes to their pants. They are like a toddler in a toy store and want the shiniest thing.
- knodi 2mo ago
  Toddler with guns and a license to kill.
  - dgellow 2mo ago
    and qualified immunity. And civil asset forfeiture. And generally protected by institutions
- paimapi 2mo ago
  relatedly: https://abcnews.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836 https://abcnews.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story...
overtone1000 2mo ago
It's a metaphor. He was comparing seeing the woman to seeing an attractive or valuable object like a coin on the ground or a jewel.
mrguyorama 2mo ago
The police officer is saying that he is so brain damaged or otherwise incapable of self control, rational thought, and restraint, that an attractive woman existing in his presence caused him to immediately commit many crimes to see her again. Pay close attention to how he insists that she was coming on to him. He genuinely believes that. He lives in a fake reality that he adjusts in whatever way will make him happiest because he has spent so long in a system that has zero repercussions or accountability. He probably shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. Men like this know they are doing bad things. They don't care. There are no repercussions. They do not feel bad about doing these bad things. See also: https://www.bwss.org/abusive-men-describe-the-benefits-of-violence/ https://www.bwss.org/abusive-men-describe-the-benefits-of-vi... Basically, these people just choose to not care about other people. They know they are hurting someone. But minor personal convenience is more important to them than not hurting another person.

avgDev 2mo ago

Just unacceptable all around. I've studied criminal justice before CS, and after getting to know cops I decided it isn't for me. The culture is awful. It is like high school, a lot of drama, sleeping around, many divorces, abuse of power and just screwed up mentality. What makes this story worse is this for me: "The detective investigating Roman told the man “you’ll get past this bro” during his arrest, and later told the victim that he was "remorseful" and urged her not to post about the incident on social media, according to body camera footage obtained by 404 Media." The detective urged the victim not post about it.....both should be stripped of badges immediately and never get certified again.

krapp 2mo ago
[flagged]
- avgDev 2mo ago
  Yep. I don't understand how departments even allow wearing the punisher logo. It is unprofessional imo. Also, a good indicator of a total toddler of a cop.
- idle_zealot 2mo ago
  Look into what "defund" means in this context. It's a slogan that leaked from more formal and academic discussion into general usage and is misinterpreted as "let's not do law enforcement." That's not what anyone well-meaning means when they use it. They mean that the police are ineffective as a law enforcement institution, and the money spent on them would be better used on other safety projects. Giving a poorly designed institution more money does not improve safety. Maybe an effective public safety institution needs more money than the police get currently (though I doubt that) but no matter how much you give to these guys they'll spend it on retired military gear, warrior training, and building a panopticon of always-on public cameras via private partnerships.
  - krapp 2mo ago
    >Look into what "defund" means in this context. It's a slogan that leaked from more formal and academic discussion into general usage and is misinterpreted as "let's not do law enforcement." No it didn't. It came from black activist movements and got popularized by BLM and the Black Visions Collective during the George Floyd protests, and abolition was very much an intended part of the message. It then leaked into more formal and academic discussion as it was adopted by the white liberal mainstream because the original message was too radical to be acceptable. Which is understandable. No one wants to admit that their complicity in a white supremacist system is the problem.

quickthrowman 2mo ago

If he didn’t say “Because I wanted to have sex with her,” he is lying. He wanted to have sex with her so he stalked her. I bet this is several orders of magnitude more common than hat is reported among police with access to databases.

deleted 2mo ago

[deleted]

cucumber3732842 2mo ago

Cops abuse every system that's given to them, to varying extents. Whining about lack of access controls and rogue (i.e. not using to do their job properly) cops is implicitly saying that this system could/would/should exist if it has "proper" access controls, whatever that means. It's like seeing a slave labor gulag and saying that the prisoners need better recreation ad more frequent laundry. To say these little things like access controlled need to be fixed is advocating for turd polishing. Even with proper access controls the purpose of these systems is to create misery at the hands of the state. The turd is still a turd.

srustagi 2mo ago
> to varying extents Is doing an INSANE amount of heavy lifting here for that generalization but yeah point taken.
- cucumber3732842 2mo ago
  I think these systems are probably less abused on a per officer basis than tazers but that's just a guess. Obviously neither is great.

bko 2mo ago

I recently listened to the Flock CEO on All In podcast, and he mentioned an ironic thing about Flock and it's audit trail is that it serves as a honeypot to root out bad police. Flock basically knows what a malicious request looks like. The simple example he gives is someone pinging the same license plate every day without putting it on a watchlist, because the officer doesn't want others to know. They started rolling out auto-detection of bad-faith queries and flagging those to supervisors. If you figure that some percentage of cops are dirty, a simple easily detectable honeypot is extremely effective in identifying them and firing them. I guess the hard part here is actually holding the cops that abuse the system accountable but that's also likely solvable. It's a huge liability for the police force. Usually the ones that are protecting dirty cops are the police unions, but that's a whole different conversation It's also important to note that Flock is just a license plate reader. It doesn't record video or do any facial recognition. And storage typically gets deleted between 1 and 7 days and is up to the precent to set. https://singjupost.com/transcript-all-in-interview-with-flock-ceo-garrett-langley/ https://singjupost.com/transcript-all-in-interview-with-floc...

chaps 2mo ago
Flock is not just a license plate reader. They have many products. Here's an article today that includes a decent deep dive into the code of one of its new projects that's... definitely more than just license plate reading. https://www.wired.com/story/flock-safety-os-investigate/ https://www.wired.com/story/flock-safety-os-investigate/
- mysterydip 2mo ago
  [dead]
- bko 2mo ago
  From the article: > The code describes 45 tools at the AI’s disposal, giving it access to plate scans and camera metadata, arrest records, case files, dispatch logs, ballistics results, and commercial databases that contain Social Security numbers, dates of birth, phone numbers, email addresses, relatives and associates. Sounds like they're shipping an AI that can use external datasources like an MCP. By this regard, Claude does exactly the same thing. Give it access to a database with social security numbers and it'll query them for you. The rest of the things described in the article is all a byproduct of having a database (typically kept around for 1-7 days) of cars, their license plates, locations and some physical description of the car. For instance: > vehicles that left one city for another and returned within a week, made repeat roundtrips over 14 days, or passed through three areas in sequence. If you have still photos of every car passing on particular street corners, this is just a query. They're just taking photos and reading license plates. And they started getting some description of the car, like unusual things. The CEO talks about that as well. From the interview: > A car drives by, we take a still image of the vehicle, we read the license plate, and the system’s gotten more sophisticated with time. We can detect things like a roof rack or a bumper sticker or dent or damage, but that’s at its core what the technology does... > So it’s pretty cool technology, and pretty effective, because if you think about what happens on a 911 call, most people don’t instinctively look at the license plate and remember it. They see the thing that was unique about the car — oh, it had damage on the right side. I would definitely recommend the interview if you want to learn more.

lisp2240 2mo ago

In the 2000s I knew a guy who was transitioning to software development after working in HR at a large American police department. He told me you couldn't become a cop unless you had a mental illness. They psychologically screen candidates to filter out people who have too much empathy. They would reject you if you said you had a close relationship with your mother, for example. They wanted people with aggressive tendencies. They loved it when someone had a superhero tattoo or had a parent die when they were a child. People always comment that we need to do more screening before people become cops, do more training. The screening and the training are the problem.

grepex 2mo ago
It sounds like that guy may have been exaggerating a bit. Aggressive people are a liability. Especially in law enforcement. Not just to the department but to fellow officers. They stir shit up and it is dangerous and annoying. Cops do need more training, like dramatically more training. I think the screening process is trying to solve a really difficult problem. You don't know if/how someone will be corrupted when they have a little bit of power. Or how they will change over time.
- adjejmxbdjdn 2mo ago
  I’m pretty sure the commenter you responded to agrees aggressive people are a liability and that’s the problem with current hiring(or at least the hiring contemporaneous to when they heard this). From my own personal conversation with a hostage scenario trainer for the police, he said de-escalation forms only a tiny percentage of his training because that’s not what the cops want, even though he would make that the majority of the training given a free hand, since de-escalation doesn’t just increase the chances of the hostages being safe, but also the cops and the first responders.
  - grepex 2mo ago
    Yes, I'm sure they would agree but I'm pointing out that the department/agency would agree as well. I don't think that departments were actively seeking out aggressive people, but rather seeking out people who could handle getting aggressive when a situation calls for it. Someone who can't get aggressive is likewise a liability. I do see what you are saying regarding de-escalation. It seems like one of those things that is easy to mistakenly dismiss as "easy" and focus on something like firearms or tactics training.